Frustrating URI - Need advice again! Not sure what to do...

[crumbilina]

Yoshi is one of my oldest girls. She is about a year and a half now and has basically been living on fleece her entire life with me. She has been on and off meds numerous times for URI's but nothing has been this bad.

To begin: Changes in bedding. I recently switched from fleece, to pelletted paper, to aspen shavings. I don't *think* that this problem is related becuase it really began about a week or more after I changed the bedding, BUT I don't know, it might be. I havent been able to change back because I havent gotten to a store to get any other bedding. I will make that a priority for tonight. Other then this change, there have been no others. The rats in the room are the same, the rats in her cage are the same and no changes in laundry detergent or frequency of cleaning the cages.

I did have a problem with Delilah in her cage. She has had a URI for quite some time now and I just sucessfully got it under control recently when my vet gave me azithromycin. So she is ok, but now Yoshi is not. She is not sneezing. It is also not in her lungs. She honks and has what I would say is a stuffy nose. Its like a roller coaster. Some days she will be fine. Then I hear screams in the middle of the night and come in to see her in the back of the cage looking very puffy and distressed when everyone else is close by excited to see me. I know these arent fights now because I saw her last night start to scream. It is when another girl sits on her or around her and she is doing the honking noise, I'm guessing it is hard for her to breath and she panics.

Im not sure what to do. She is on zithro and baytril right now. We have tried doxy, and we are running out of options. I am going to take her back to the vet, but we spoke on the phone and he isnt even sure what to try as we seem to be running close to the bottom of the list of antibiotics we could try.

Does anyone have any suggestions for antibiotics to try? Doxy, baytril and zithro seem to be doing very little for her...

Please help, I'm completely out of ideas and really worried for my little girlie.

ANY suggestions are welcome.

ETA: I have also tried childrens Benadryl. I thought it helped, but about 30 minutes after I gave it to her she started up again. This is another reason I don't think it is an allergy to the bedding.
And to clairify, she is on aspen now. They were on pelletted paper for about a month a while ago. And before that fleece

 

[SQ]

Make sure the meds are the right dose.
Baytril 10 mg/454.4 g twice a day, zithro 10 - 15 mg/454.4 g twice a day; for 6 weeks if helping

I would put her back on the bedding she is used to. The current bedding may be dusty or irritating her in some way.

You can try:
baytril + doxy
baytril + clavamox
gentamicin + clavamox

If the antibiotics don't work, I would test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4g twice a day) to see if she has a heart problem.
If it helps, then atenolol (1 mg/454.4 g twice a day) and lasix (as needed, starting dose usually 1-2 mg/454.4g twice a day) are added.
Digoxin is added if the heart is enlarged as seen on an xray

(dose info taken from the Rat Health Care book, http://www.ratfanclub.org)

 

[crumbilina]

The dosages are correct. Lilspaz and I checked them as soon as I got the meds. And now I know how to check them properly too and looked at the doxy and other combos she was on and they too were correct.

Thanks for the list of combinations. I will be sure to write those down for when I go to the vet.

I plan on changing her bedding as soon as I get home from work tonight. Is there anything I can do for her in the meantime?
Should I cange the bedding in all of the cages or just hers?

Never thought of a heart issue :-/ Any signs I should watch for? I'll have to look on ratguide.

 

[jorats]

I'm not sure I understand, she screams and she honks? When you listen to her lungs, they are clear? I wonder if she has an irritant in her nose. How long has she been on those meds?

 

[crumbilina]

She screams when someone lies on her or really close to her when she is making the honking noises, I assume she is having trouble breathing at these points and probably stresses and screams. I can understand that, it would be difficult. There are no effects on anyone else in the cage...

She has been on azithromycin for 14ish days. The baytril I started her on on thursday of last week. She was on a medly of other meds before this to treat a uri, which seemed to get better. The only reason why she went on azithro to begin with was because of Delilah's infection that looked like it was beginning to "spread" through the cage - the others were sniffly, like the beginning of a uri kind of thing.

SO I put her on it and then upped the dose on thursday from once a day to 2 times a day. Then added the baytril.

I did change the bedding yesterday and there have been less screams. But she still makes honking noises.

There is nothing in her lungs. They sound fine. This is all nasal... which is why it is confusing because usually nasal URIs are so much easier to get rid of...
Maybe I jsut need to give it more time iwth different bedding. I changed ALL of the bedding so that noone is on the aspen so hopefully there will be a change.

Its so wierd. I have been battling this one with her for a while, and just when I thought that I had it under control...

Also, I bought them an oreck air purifier (I splerged so I hope it works well) so I will run the hepa purifier and the oreck purifier and hope that helps as well

Im going to wait until the end of tomorrow and spend a while with her to see if the breathing clears... if not, she is going to the vet *sigh*

I wouldnt feel so urgent about this, but I have to get her better so she can go in for her tumor removal and spay the longer I wait, the more sugar based meds I give her, the larger her tumor grows... poor girl, I feel bad even though I know she doesnt care...

I'm sorry if this post sounds kind o jumbled, I'm really tired. Ask any questions you need to for clarification... Did I even answer all the questions? lol

 

[jorats]

Oh ok, I understand now.
Have you tried an inhaler or a bronchodialator?

 

[crumbilina]

No... what would those trade names be? Maybe I should ask my vet about them

At this point I am willing to try ANYTHING! She needs to get better. Her tumor is getting too large for my comfort level even going into surgery... I have full confidence in the vet, but... erm

Lol no to mention it must be exhausting for her when she has one of her honking episodes

OH that was one thing I forgot to mention... these noises she makes are not always made, they come and go

 

[crumbilina]

Oh ok, I understand now.
Have you tried an inhaler or a bronchodialator?

Oh like Albuterol?

 

[M0onkist]

Let me just run and check to see what Mr. Honeycomb was put on - it's like a decongestant, but it's in oral form and not inhaled (which means less stress on the body).

 

[M0onkist]

Theophylline

 

[crumbilina]

Humm, that was the other one I was thinking of but I thought that it was for something different

Well, I will have to see

On a happy note though, I have not heard her honking Mind you she doesn't do it all the time so maybe I missed it but she is sleeping with the other girls again, so I think it might be getting better with a change in bedding and the antibiotics

 

[M0onkist]

When you mentioned that Yoshi was honking, I immediately thought about Mr. Honeycomb's URI a couple of months back - he was doing a lot of honking too.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=22145 A couple of posts down is where I describe his symptoms etc.

It's an oral bronchodilator, basically - opens up the airways without the suddenness of an inhaled bronchodilator. It's kind of like taking a cough medicine when you get a chest cold, I think (opens up the airways a bit so you can breathe better).

 

[crumbilina]

Herm...

I will ask the vet and see what he says... IF I end up going. She seems to be improving

Thanks for the info. I'll make sure I have it if I go

 

[M0onkist]

I think the reason Dr. Munn prefers theophylline over an inhaled bronchodilator is because it's less of a shock to the system - it would open up the airways a bit more gradually than ::breathe in - WOW!:: - so less stress for a rat if they've got a serious URI.

::hugs:: Glad she's doing better, hope she keeps improving!

 

[jorats]

I've used my own inhaler on my rats, with my vet's recommendation. It seems to help but I think I'd give the theophylline if you can get it.
I'm glad she's feeling better, sometimes they just need longer on their meds.

 

[crumbilina]

I think I would go for the theophylline because it is oral... she does NOT like to be held - she likes sitting on my shoulder and she will happily take oral meds... so...

I'm excited to see her when I get home... She was happy this morning to take her meds (she gets a morning treat when noone else does - I'd give them one too but since I seem to be so scattered int he morning they usually get a scratch then im off lol)

So yay for going home soon... i hope... as long as my phenol thaws soon so that I can actually finish my experiment... ugh!

 

[crumbilina]

Just to update this.

Yoshis breathing has softened... She is still having the occasional wet sneeze and noisy breath But not nearly as bad as she was having before. I think that she is on her way to recovery...

Now I can breath a sigh of relief. She really had me confused and frustrated.

Silly girl.

 

[M0onkist]

Silly girl better than sick girl!

Kisses to Yoshi

 

[crumbilina]

Agreed! I would sooner have silly then sick lol!!!

 

[Ratticus]

This sounds very much like the noises Jackie has been making since November (always in the nose/nasal area) like crackling gurgles, as if something was blocking the nose, while her lungs were always clear too.

You might want to try a corticosteroid with the antibiotics. Although I'd found azithromycin to work well the first time I used it, it didn't the 2nd time. Chloramphenicol is a good one that penetrates the blood/brain barrier that other abs don't always do. Theophylline can open airways.

Do you have a nebulizer where you can use some plain saline solution to help soothe airways too?

I'm glad to hear she's doing better.