Anesthesia experience?

[Ela]

Hi all,

We've had several rats undergo anesthesia multiple times with zero complications... and always been advised by our vet the risk was minimal (likely due to his experience). We've had them put under for things like dental work as well as tumor removal... without hesitation. He recently left his practice, so we've been forced to find another vet, who seems super kind and knowledgeable with exotics. This vet however told me some pretty scary statistics... that in his personal experience 10% of rats just "don't wake-up"... even from brief routine things like dental work. But then he later threw out a 1 in 30 rats statistic, which isn't 10% soooo.......

I KNOW things do happen, and there is always a risk, but that that mortality rate seems super high, and contradictory to my own experience. If anyone wants to chime in with their own experience with it, I'm super curious. Like from real rat parents, what they've experienced... and if they've had any pass away from brief/short anesthesia (like isoflurane). From all of my research the real danger comes in after longer exposure, and typically with inexperienced practitioners... but maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking this vet is either more honest than most, or a lot greener/less experienced in his field than he's letting on.

 

[Zang]

From what my vet has told me, the longer the rat is under anesthesia the bigger the risk. But I was never given specific persentages.

The very first time my rat got a mammory tumor and required a surgery she passed specifically bc of anesthesia. The surgery itself was without complications but she just didn't wake up. I believe it might have played a role that she was a very easily spooked rat and I wasn't quite sure about her age (got her from another owners who got her from pet store).

After that I was hesitant to repeat the process with her sister. But she had smaller tumor and was fine. She was also slightly sedated about a week after for seroma removal and that went swimmingly again. To be fair for "slight sedation" I was not even told about any possible risks.

I will also say tho, that surgery on rat#1 and surgery on rat#2 were done by 2 different vets, with #1 being done not by my main vet.

In any case because my first experience was so traumatic I think long and hard before agreeing to anesthesia.

I know a person who has had rats for 10+ years and about a year ago they decided to just never operate on a rat. Like if their rats get tumor they'll just not do anything. But that doesn't sit right with me no matter how worried I might be.

Do you per chance have an option to find out which vets ppl recommend for rat treatment? In my country we have something like a "rat breeder organization" and they've got a map of all the clinics in the country where you could get quality rat care with specific doctors reccomended.

 

[Ela]

From what my vet has told me, the longer the rat is under anesthesia the bigger the risk. But I was never given specific persentages.

The very first time my rat got a mammory tumor and required a surgery she passed specifically bc of anesthesia. The surgery itself was without complications but she just didn't wake up. I believe it might have played a role that she was a very easily spooked rat and I wasn't quite sure about her age (got her from another owners who got her from pet store).

After that I was hesitant to repeat the process with her sister. But she had smaller tumor and was fine. She was also slightly sedated about a week after for seroma removal and that went swimmingly again. To be fair for "slight sedation" I was not even told about any possible risks.

I will also say tho, that surgery on rat#1 and surgery on rat#2 were done by 2 different vets, with #1 being done not by my main vet.

In any case because my first experience was so traumatic I think long and hard before agreeing to anesthesia.

I know a person who has had rats for 10+ years and about a year ago they decided to just never operate on a rat. Like if their rats get tumor they'll just not do anything. But that doesn't sit right with me no matter how worried I might be.

Do you per chance have an option to find out which vets ppl recommend for rat treatment? In my country we have something like a "rat breeder organization" and they've got a map of all the clinics in the country where you could get quality rat care with specific doctors reccomended.

I'm so sorry to hear about your girl. That is such a worst case scenario... and tragic. I've had several tumor removals done for most of our girls (and brief sedations) that have gone well... though the last girl who had removal took a long time to recover. Two months later and she still isn't quite herself, and has aged dramatically since the procedure. But as rat parents we all know, there are so many unforeseeable things, and so often it's choosing what we think to be the lesser of the evils. I drive myself crazy looking at data and forums, then comparing with vet advice!

Actually the reason I started this thread is we did the Deslorelin (Suprelorin F) implant for one of our girls, that is a non invasive way to chemically spay. It only requires a super quick sedation and barely any recovery. It went really well, and prevented her from getting any mammary tumors. We want to do the same thing for our new babies, which our new vet thought was a great idea, but warned us with those statistics if we used sedation (which you should because the needle used to implant is so big). We all know elective surgical spays can be risky... though SO beneficial if you have a good trusted vet... but that surprised me. I've always thought brief sedation was the safe/practically risk free option, unless there was some unknown rare allergy.

To throw it out there, the drug Cabergoline has also worked for me previously to shrink mammary tumors including pituitary... It can work if they are the Prolactin dependent kind... But rats HATE it, and dosing can be a real stress. It's also super expensive here in the U.S. But it did work really well in one case... though sadly not always. If one is desperate though it is another route to take.

As for finding vets... facebook groups to join can be a big help. There are a lot of localized fan pages for breeders and owners to connect for advice. I typically get a better response there, though this site is great to find old threads and info... so I like to add to it when I can.

Thankfully we have no shortage of accredited/recommended exotic vets here... So I'm going off of several opinions before making a call... but I wanted to reach out to get thoughts from rat parents. This new vet through me for a bit of a loop... and again, just wondering if he's more honest than most... or just green!

 

[schpier]

I am a retired anesthesiologist( human) . During my medical school days many years ago ( 1970s), i performed many rat anesthetics as part of surgical projects. They all survived including major surgical procedures such as cardiac surgery.
In my opinion, the inhaled anesthetics are safer for rats because they are eliminated rapidly by breathing rather than the liver or kidneys.
with advances in anesthesia monitoring, and with better veterinary training, I see no reason why mortality in rat anesthesia should be significantly greater than in humans. A skilled small animal veterinary practitioner must always be consulted however!