Aggressive attacking

[Pandora]

My rat mochi is such a sweetheart, but when I clean the bottom of the cage he attacks my hand very viciously... To the point I have to wear a leather glove sometimes. He only attacks my hand when I make noise with the newspaper. Could it be that he just doesn't like the sound of the newspaper? Or do you think he's being territorial about his poops. Also he seems to be in the middle of a lot of rat fights. With accidental scratches here and there because their nails are Sharp... I've definitely found scabby bite marks on my other boys... But the problem is it's only one fight every few days, and I don't really know who the aggressor is because my other rat, Bean, seems to be starting the fight with mochi.

I've noticed outside the cage bean will follow mochi around and pull on his ears lightly. Mochi really doesn't react outside the cage besides standing up or walking away. So I don't know if mochi is the aggressor in cage or bean. Yesterday three of my boys had mochi in a corner, I think they were finally standing up to him. I don't want to have to separate him because on The daily he is very kind to his cage mates.. I have a feeling it's probably hormonal, or bean is trying to challenge the hierarchy.

I know the rule of thumb is no blood no foul.. so what should I do, because I don't really want to separate them.... I do have another cage if necessary though. Has anyone else gone through something like this? And do you think this will end? Obviously they get better when I give them CBD oil but I keep forgetting to give it to them everyday.

I have a custom cage that is big enough for 5 rats. I only have four rats. One (cheese) is neutered, he's not a factor in any of the fights, he is kind of a loner, though enjoys cuddle puddles. Mochi is i think 8 mo, so possible hormonal spike. Bean is 9ish mo, never had a hormonal spike but maybe hes a late bloomer? Cookie is about 10 or 11 months, SoftBoi™, lover not a fighter but still has marks on him (sensitive skin, he's a rex)

 

[lilspaz68]

if Bean is following Mochi around then he is the one acting dominant. Its possible Mochi is defensive rather than the aggressor. I advise moving him out of the cage before you clean it so he's not frightened or defensive with you and it doesn't become a habit.

 

[Dena]

Also, could it be possible that the "scratches and bites" scabs could actually be from mites? Are they little scabs on the shoulders, and neck? Maybe the fights aren't as bad as they seem? I'd definitely move him out if the cage for cleaning, for his comfort and yours!

 

[mwp051699]

What you are experiencing is a VERY common condition known as " Territorial Aggressiveness". Ok, so I just made that up, lol. But, seriously, this phenomenon is a very real condition where your pet rattie, a lovable sweetheart at all (or most) other times is aggressive and also often bites, (some actually draw blood, or worse, "chew" your finger with quick, slicing bites, sort of like cutting with scissors I guess) and will never change this habit. It's a erritorial instinctive reaction to your hand being an invasive, possibly unknown, threat to the safety and security code their nest, THEIR home. Not YOUR cage. It's THEIR cage, so naturally, they defend it as you would defend your home from an unknown, threatening intruder. I hope I made this explanation clear.
Oh, BTW, I don't do any sort of cleaning when these types of protective rats are in their cages, it's not only dangerous, bit it's not fair to the rat. He's only doing what anyone would do in their situation. Don't fault then, they're only doing what they're supposed to

 

[Dena]

I almost NEVER clean a cage with a rat in it. I was attacked by a very docile friendly rat, not hurt, but could have been. Lesson learned. It's stressful for both of you. LOL

 

[lilspaz68]

I do not agree that this behavior can never change, it can in time but it depends on the rat and their fears and worries. Some will change but always play it safe when dealing with fear aggressive/cage territorial rats, getting bitten can actually reinforce the behavior into a habit which is harder to break.

 

[Pandora]

So this just happened, or at least I just found it....... This is Bean's "beans" ...... Obviously I'm going to separate him until he heals completely. Mochi doesn't have an issue with the other rats as much as he does with Bean.... I can't afford to get mochi fixed, so I really don't know what to do..... Being is not in pain as far as I can tell, I cleaned it with peroxide and put antibiotic ointment... I as well cannot afford to bring him to the vet currently ..... This is my fault I should have taken mochi out of the cage a while ago...

 

[lilspaz68]

OK if Mochi did this, then its a serious injury, not so much with healing but intent. This is a bite that is meant to maim or kill so definitely move out the aggressor. Try to keep Beans in with his other friends while he's healing as its not a serious wound.

As for Mochi, he terrifies everyone or just doesn't like Beans?

 

[Pandora]

Mochi and cheesesteak get along for the most part because cheese is balless and doesn't care about mochi. Mochi still tries to wrestle him but he doesn't do anything. Cookie and bean are inseperable, so one usually doesn't move without the other unless extremely comfortable (like in their own cage they sometimes sleep independently for short time). Cookie hasn't gotten it as bad as bean did but he is super defensive around mochi. He screams when cornered but him. Bean is doing so well now that he and cookie have a cage to themselves.....

I am going to, when he is fully healed (I've been cleaning and putting ointment on his nard) clean out and completely scrub the big cage of any mochi/cheesesteak smell. That way my boys can be in the big cage again and get comfy, letting it become their territory. Then ever so slowly start introducing cheesesteak again into the mischief, and if possible, mochi later on after everything settles. However, I don't know how long it will take, if ever. Mochi is so ramped up with hormones he even gets territorial at me if I'm spot cleaning his cage. He doesn't like me taking his poopies, utterly hates the sound of news paper....

Bedding is hard for me because i want fleece but that gets stinky mad fast, but loose bedding such as the carefresh paper bedding it hard to spot clean because the poops fall to the bottom. I came up with newspaper over fleece to soak up pee and give a softish bottom. But idk what to do. Ill add pics of the cage's in a moment.

 

[Pandora]

I have video of their interaction outside of the cage from today... Outside the cage mochi gets along with everyone... Bean however is still apprehensive of him, for obvious reasons... If mochi comes near him bean will grab his face lightly. I can't seem to add them to the post, so if you want them let me know and i will give you my snapchat.

 

[Pandora]

cookie and bean

mochi and cheesesteak

 

[lilspaz68]

both of these cages are too small to have 4 boys, 2 boys each is all I would put in them which you have done. If Mochi is that hormonal now (he's how old again?) I would definitely keep him with a rat he doesn't terrorize but he may be just ramping up so watch his and his cagemates behaviors like a hawk, and be very careful yourself. Dealing with a hormonal male can often be very handsoff, and be careful touching his back or rump as these are trigger spots and can set them off. Don't try to clean his cage while he's in it. I have a no-touch boy who is hormonal but older. I now open the door to his cage, but put in baby cereal in his bowl so he knows it is there and he will eventually go back for his breakfast and I shut the door, never touching him and setting him off. He still rubs and puffs up his fur but is less violent overall. Hormones can make a rat act like they are raging but its not their fault. These aren't happy rats but you have to consider your finances and their happiness when thinking about neutering. Some MUST be neutered, others you can figure out how to deal with and hope the hormones fade as they get older. My monster is almost 2 and was unhandled most of his former life so I won[t neuter him but will work with him instead.

 

[Pandora]

I used so many rat cage measuring sites before I built my cage. It said it was ok for 6 rats (its deeper than it looks and i always have toys for them) I never planned on having 6. The only reason why i wanted four was because i had two, one was healthy, one had a tumor after about a year and died. Before he died, I got my healthy boy a new brother to ease the pain of losing his current one. (I knew my one was going to die) and the healthy one died of depression 5 days later anyway. I wanted to give my boys a support system for when their brother dies.

 

[lilspaz68]

with males especially with one being hormonal you need a ton of space. You might want to hang more hammocks to make more "levels" as such, its not so much the size of the cage but the useable space too.

Cut a doubled up piece of fleece that will stretch from side to side and use that as a half floor/shelf. Rats don't care if you make fleece squares or buy them store-bought hammocks, they sometimes just need to get away from another rat and need options.

 

[Pandora]

I get that, the only reason why that cage is so bare is because i had to split my hammock usage between two cages ... Normally, you almost can't reach in without hitting something.

 

[lilspaz68]

Can you get fleece and shower hooks? I've done that so many times when I didn't have hammocks on hand. Bumping into things can also irritate a hormonal male...is best to watch Mochi and see if things annoy him, make escape routes for the cagemate etc.
How old is Mochi again?

 

[Pandora]

Dealing with a hormonal male can often be very handsoff, and be careful touching his back or rump as these are trigger spots and can set them off. Don't try to clean his cage while he's in it. I have a no-touch boy who is hormonal but older. I now open the door to his cage, but put in baby cereal in his bowl so he knows it is there and he will eventually go back for his breakfast and I shut the door, never touching him and setting him off

This makes me really sad..... Mochi has always been such a sweetheart. He's about 8m now, in the prime of hormones. I don't want him to become a no touch, that would kill me.

 

[Pandora]

Can you get fleece and shower hooks? I've done that so many times when I didn't have hammocks on hand. Bumping into things can also irritate a hormonal male...is best to watch Mochi and see if things annoy him, make escape routes for the cagemate etc.
How old is Mochi again?

It seems he is most irritated by the sound of newspaper and his rump being touched... Oh and anyting that smells like bean.... Like i put a toy in beans cage for the night, and then put it in mochis cage and he went crazy sniffing it and what looked like attempting to mount it.

 

[Pandora]

Can you get fleece and shower hooks?

Tbh i never thought of that... Yeah I can, dollar store has new fleece designs too!

 

[lilspaz68]

there are even no sew fleece hammocks you can make (a ton of descriptions and videos online) if you are so inclined.

It sounds like Bean sets off Mochi so they may need to live apart. 2 boys per cage is the perfect idea no. I wouldn't try reintros after an injury like that. Next time you might have testicles falling out and you might need to euthanize Bean...not worth it.