Advice needed: 2 tumors. Erm......

[crumbilina]

Cocoa, my 2 year and 5 month old rattie has developed 2 more tumors

Back in August, I had one other tumor removed. It was a normal mammary tumor located on her right side just after her forearm. All went well with the removal. Problem is that I don't think that she would survive another operation, especially one that would remove the 2 lumps under her back legs (pictures to follow).

Has anyone had any experience with 2 tumors between the back legs?
I am really worried about it because I can't tell if they can/will cut off any vital functions. She can still pee (proven by the little wet spot she just recently left on my sweater). And there is little raisins in her cage (by little, I mean normal size) so that part is still working too...

I don't know what to expect with this one. Any insights about what I should do? She has been to the vet and was on antibiotics for 2 weeks because we thought it was an abscess. It isn't, so those are done. I know it is a tumor, just don't know what to do or what to expect.

Other then the tumors, she is fine. Eating and drinking well, climbing up into her sputnik well. All in all her normal cheery old lady self . I just want to make sure that I have exhausted all my options before I stop trying. And since it is still early on and the tumors are sort of small and we now know for sure that it is tumors and not abscesses, I figured now is a good time to try. I have stopped all additional sugar and she only has Harlan for her food (and some veggies - but even those I'm hesitant to give frequently because i don't know which ones are high in sugar and which ones are good to give). That's about all that I can think of doing.

Here is a picture of her lumps:

And then one of her beautiful face :heart:

This makes me so sad She is one of the most beautiful, gentle, happy rats I have ever met. I love her so much!

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[jorats]

I've had a rat with a tumour near her genitals, it was not a typical mammary tumour and she could not be saved. But it is possible for it to be a mammary tumour. It really sucks when they get tumours and are older. You don't know what's the right thing to do, removal or not.

 

[crumbilina]

I really an unsure of what to do. I don't think that they would even do another surgery so soon after her last....

I just hope there are no complications with these? they are right in between her back 2 legs... talk about an inconvenient spot for them to be.

I dunno... I'm so saddened by this. she is such a sweetie

 

[jorats]

Could they be abscesses?

 

[crumbilina]

I thought that, and so I took her to the vet. He took a sample and said he couldnt tell if it was a tumor or an abscess: there was some infection, which lead him to believe it could be an infection, but I dont think there was enough that he could say the whole thing was. I brought her home and gave her the antibiotics for the full 2 weeks. In the first 2 days, I noticed that the size went down, but it never fully disappeared. And then it remained the same size from then on and kindof grew a bit more over the past few weeks. Also, the little one on her right side popped up when she was on antibiotics.

There are no places on the lumps that could allow them to drain either.

Also, I'm not sure how to tell if something is an abscess or a tumor.

 

[Rachael]

One of my girls had a tumour there which was operable, but I have another girl with tumours there right now and I've decided against an operation as she's not very healthy and it's slow growing.

 

[crumbilina]

One of my girls had a tumour there which was operable, but I have another girl with tumours there right now and I've decided against an operation as she's not very healthy and it's slow growing.

How is she doing? Does she have one on each side like Cocoa has? Is she still able to function normally?

I'm worried about blockages and whatnot. I dont really know what symptoms to look for if there is a blockage

 

[Rachael]

She is 2 and a half now so a bit slower, but she's doing well. There's a bigger one on one side and a smaller one a bit lower down on the other side. She eats and drinks fine, and will still have a wander about the playroom, so yes she gets about fine

 

[crumbilina]

good

i know it may not be how Cocoa will be, but it feels good knowing that others are still coping with it

Thank you!

Is there anything else that you have done to see if you could slow the growth of the tumors?

 

[crumbilina]

I had Cocoa out tonight for a bit of a run around with the babies - Lily and Abby - in hopes that she would help me solcialize the little buggers. I noticed that she almost kangaroo hops when she walks/waddles.

Also, tonight I noticed that one of the "tumors" is movable and soft whereas the other is very hard and firmly rooted.

Does anyone know what the difference in these 2 could mean? Is it possible that the one is an abscess and that the antibiotics were not sufficient to get rid of the infection? She was on enrofloxacin for 2 weeks, 2 times a day. I cant tell you how much she was actually receiving because I know the dose but not the concentration - I dislike this new vet I have.

*sigh* I think I might have to make the long trek back to Kitchener. I just don't understand why there is not a good vet here in Hamilton.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. I'm worried about my little Cocoa.

 

[jorats]

Try treating both as abscesses, using warm compresses. Sometimes it takes a while with Baytril to get rid of an abscess.

 

[crumbilina]

Ok!

What would work as a warm compress? somethng as simple as a wet washcloth?

I will have to look to see if there is already a place with this information. I will have to go back to the vet and ask for baytril then, what should the dose be and how long should i request it for?

 

[jorats]

I'd ask for Clavamox.
And a warm wash cloth will do the trick.

I've felt abscesses and mammary tumours as hard or loose and squishy which is why it's hard to tell which is which. Try smelling the area, if you have a foul odor, I'd think infection.

 

[crumbilina]

No foul odor... She smells like she always smells. Kindof a sweeter smell - at least to me

I will try and get her into the vets here asap. I'm sure ill be able to run my lab schedule around this

Poor girl, I'm pretty sure that the hardest mass is hurting her
When I touch it even lightly she winces and trys to run away

 

[lilspaz68]

The location is definitely more like mammary tumours but wincing upon handling is more like abscesses. Try a couple of very warm sitz bathes in the sink. The location is perfect for a shallow soak in warm/hot water...it will bring any infection to the surface much faster than compresses in less time.

If they are tumours than you just watch her bodily functions and make sure she poops and pees with no issues.

 

[crumbilina]

Ok, so to do the washes in the sink (I'm REALLY happy I bought a plug for my sink this weekend haha) How frequently?

I will make it so that the water is warm to me, cuz I am a whimp when it comes to hot water so it wont burn her. I REALLY hope it is an abscess, it looks so horrible and pressure filled. I couldnt imagine a tumor like that! My poor girl is going to HATE me! And i cant even bribe her with her favourite yogurt drops! They are too sugary. Ill have to bring out the ensure I suppose

Ill do what I have to for her...
I REALLY hope it is an abscess that would make my day/week/month/season! In other words - really happy!

 

[larch]

I hope they're just abscesses. I don't know much about tumors, but I know that abscesses become soft and squishy when they're about to burst. They can seem pretty hard at the same time, and I'm speaking from personal expierences and run-ins with MRSA in my own body. It's sometimes hard to tell if the abscess is still forming or if it's ready to be lanced.

Another suggestion, is place a wet wash cloth over a water bottle filled with hot water. Have her sit on it while feeding her treats. I'd say letting her sit on it for 5-10 minutes a few times a day may help. The hotter it is, the better, but not painfully hot.

 

[jorats]

Good tip about the hot water bottle.

 

[crumbilina]

YAY! Cocoa has a vet appointment on Friday at 9am

So this means I will be able to ask for the Clavamox. What are the normal dosages that should be given of this antibiotic? Is there anything else I should ask for? Cocoa is about 1 pound... I would have to weigh her tonight and see the exact weight but that shouldnt matter here right now.

I plan on also asking him if he can take another sample like he did before to see if there is infection. I'm so sad that I don't have the time to take her to Dr. Gerald in Kitchener. He would do so much better by her. He is so much more knowledgable. O well, I will just have to make sure that I take the knowledge in with me and get what we think is good. If I end up in a dead end after this visit I will just have to take the time off and go. Thats all there is to it. I will give this vet one more chance, even though he answered the euth. question wrong.

Anyway, I will continue with the warm compresses. I HAVE a hot water bottle so that should be good
She also sat in the sink in warm water last night for me for about 15 minutes I was overjoyed since this is usually a struggle. For the first little while, she reminded me of a person that just stepped into a nice warm bath. I could almost hear the sigh of relaxation! She almost fell asleep! Until she was tired of it lol!

Anyway thanks everyone for your help. I will do all of the suggestions.

OH one other thing i noticed last night is that the hard lump seems more nodular then completely round. I dunno what that could indicate....

 

[larch]

OH one other thing i noticed last night is that the hard lump seems more nodular then completely round. I dunno what that could indicate....

I think that could indicate that it's an abscess after all. The hot compresses are probably bringing it to a head. If it ends up bursting before you get to the vet, here is what I'd do:

Try to get all the pus out but don't be too rough with her. Some people recommend not to pinch it at all, in case the pus enters some other part of the body. At the same time, it's important to get the pus out since it's the one thing causing the most problems. Since it's coming out anyway, I'd just push at it very gently until it stops leaking. Keep wiping up the mess and don't let her groom it. Then have a tub of warm water for her to stand in for another 15 mins. Afterwards, rinse it out with a saline solution. Rinsing it out 2 times a day with a weak saline solution would be smart. (1 tsp salt in 1 cup warm water) you can spray it out of a feeding syringe, soak a gauze pad and hold it to the wound, or simply have her sit in it. Your vet will probably prescribe something to help with infection, maybe have some other suggestions too. If it's an abscess, I think she should recover rather well.

I have high hopes for you!