What is Wrong? No diagnosis. Desperate!

[Bundyrats]

Hi, well I've just been having the worst couple of weeks. Two weeks ago on Sunday, Sheba my apricot hooded 17 month old went down hill pretty suddenly. I rushed her to the vet, she was dehydrated, doing a funny jump, disorientated, lethargic, not eating and breathing quickly. He gave her fluids for two days and started her on Flagyl (he thought she might have a stomach virus). I also started her on Baytril. He tried to take a blood sample but was unsuccessful (having never done it before) so we're unable to determine what's going on. I have been giving her feeds half hourly to hourly when I am home and I thought I was going to lose her at one point but she just kept holding on and I wasn't going to give up on her. She seemed to stabilise a few days after the fluid therapy and all she's eaten for over two weeks is Ensure mixed with some baby soy formula and a bit of yoghurt, a little bit of baby banana ceral and a few bites of lettuce. The antibiotics did nothing and I felt they were making things worse, so last tuesday, I discussed with my vet and we took her off them. She seemed to get better straight away, when I say better, I mean still stable but still very sick. Now today, she has taken a turn for the worse again and I don't know what else to do. I can't bear to think that it's her time but we don't know whats wrong. It's not respiratory but other than that I don't know. If I think about it, she was a little off for a week or so leading up to it but in the past if she ever got like that Baytril would fix her right up straight away. Any ideas? Any suggestions would be so helpful.

 

[Moon]

What do you mean by "funny jump"? And what was she doing to seem disoriented?

Any blood in her urine, are stools normal?

 

[lilspaz68]

Can you take a video of what she looks like?

 

[jorats]

Going by your description and her age, it could very well be a pituitary tumour. You could try dexamethason along with the baytril, see if that helps but it certainly won't bring her back to normal. It will progress to the point that she will pass. Some pituitary tumours grow slow or fast. Seeing an improvement when taking her off meds could be because the meds were taxing on her organs or might even have given her belly aches.
It could also be an acute infection somewhere in the body. In which case Baytril is your best bet. I'd probably keep her on that for now.
If it was a neurological event but not a PT, then should could very well recover, you'll see her get better on dex or with prednisone.

 

[Bundyrats]

Thanks, the vet said she was hypoglycemic due to dehydration and that was affecting her brain hence the disorientation and strange movements, once she was hydrated, that all seemed to disappear. Hmmm..the funny jump, hard to describe but it's like a normal rattie jumping down the hallway but more exagerated, like rat ballet - almost looks like a poisened rodent might - you can just tell there is something wrong. What about Bactim? We haven't tried that before...
I am making an appointment this morning to ask for it, will mention the dex and pred, thanks.

 

[Bundyrats]

We've been to the vet and he thinks it's a liver problem, possibly kidney or heart. There is nothing else to do but wait and see, although he did give her some fluids. He would prefer not to give her any steriods because if it's a kidney problem it could kill her. So she's getting a lot of TLC and regular feeds, I hope she pulls through.

 

[SQ]

If she has respitory problems that do not respond to antibiotics such as baytril + doxy, or baytril + zithro, etc
then it could be a heart problem.

Try test dosing her with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib, twice a day). If it helps then add atenolol (1 mg/Ib, twice a day) and take an xray to see if her heart is enlarged. Lasix may be needed if fluid is being retained in the lungs, starting dose is 1-2 mg/Ib twice a day. If ithe heart is enlarged, then digoxin (0.0025 mg/Ib twice a day)is added. Info taken from the Rat Health Care book.

 

[mamarat]

I'm also thinking PT as it can cause respiratory distress and the meds don't do anything. Good luck with your sweetie.

 

[Bundyrats]

Hi, we really don't think it's respiratory as she is breathing ok, just a little quick sometimes and not making any noises (not like my snuffly Meesha). Her heart has also always been fairly consistent through the stethescope, so that's why the vet thinks it's probably liver, maybe kidney. I have passed the info onto my vet, thanks SQ.

 

[jorats]

You described the hopping better. I've seen rats with bladder infection move this way.
Now, the big issue is, do you treat the bladder infection but risk harming the liver or kidneys more if it is the liver and kidneys. It's a tough call.
Does your rat drink a lot more than usual? If so then I would think it's kidneys.

 

[Moon]

Yeah, it sounds like she's in pain to me. Is she on any pain meds? Are pain meds safe for potential kidney or liver issues?

 

[Bundyrats]

Well the vet seems to think that it's not an infection because the antibiotics did nothing to help. She had a real schizo attack last night when I put her back in the cage. I have a 'rat room' where they free-range and have fun stuff to do, they are let out to roam every night from the moment I get home to minute I go to bed. Shebe was sitting in the Alpine Retreat and when I put her in her cage before bed, she had the most energy I've seen in a while. Biting on the wire bars until I thought she would break her teeth and trying to get out, jumping about and acting crazy. And I have finally heard what stressed bruxing sounds like because she did it for the first time last night. After about 10 mins she was exhausted and I thought I was going to lose her then and there. This morning, she was a little crazy again but settled once I held her in the rat room. I cried thinking that this was good bye but now tonight, she seems a bit better again. I had made an appointment today to see the vet tomorrow to possibly have her PTS but now I don't know. I don't think she's ready yet. Oh gosh this is so hard.

One other question, when/if I do have to have her PTS, I was going to take Meesha in for the trip there but then take them home separately. Should I let the other two smell her at home once she is gone or will that be too upsetting? Is it better that they just never see her again (crying here again).

 

[lilspaz68]

I wish we had a video Are any of her movments repetitive or without purpose, especially when shes freakiing out?

Is she drinking/peeing more, is her urine darker or lighter, a different smell? Renal failure is a very typical thing with aging rats and should't cause these symptoms unless she has a UTI and is in pain. I would say put her on pain meds and see if most of her mannerisms are from untreated pain. Then go from there.

 

[Bundyrats]

Sorry I haven't got a video, 99.9% of the time she is just laying there not moving and when she goes crazy it catches me by surprise. When she is freaking out, it seems like she's in a hurry to get 'somewhere'. When I put her in the rat room, she calms down. So it's hard to tell if she knows what she's doing or by the time I get her to her favourite spot, the episode is over.

She's not drinking or eating anything by herself. All she has eaten for about 3 weeks is Ensure and Soy baby food, hand fed through a syringe and yoghurt. The urine doesn't smell different, it may be a bit darker than normal but I can't be sure. She doesn't move from her bed at all. Just sits there looking.
She's only 15 months old, so I didn't think that was really old age. I will try the pain meds though and see what happens, thanks lilspaz

 

[Bundyrats]

So I just pulled out the ibuprofen bottle and it says do not give to children who have stomach disorders, have kidney or heart problems or are suffering dehydration and Sheba could be any of these. She's not really dehydrated though as she had some fluids injected on Tuesday and I am giving her regular feeds but I doubt she is fully hydrated. As far as I can see, she is not in pain. She moves normally (which isn't often), she's not squeaking and my other two are not too interested or distressed by her.
Well I had the appointment tomorrow thinking the worst but now she seems ok (by ok I mean a step back from seriously thinking about euth), I will go anyway and see if there is anything else at all that we can do. I'll mention the pain meds.

 

[Bundyrats]

Does anyone know how their vet takes a blood test? If only we could have a blood test then maybe we would know what's wrong...

 

[mamarat]

I know my vet won't, she says she wouldn't be able to take enough for a sample.

 

[lilspaz68]

could she be having seizures? Does one side of her seem weaker than the other (indicating a stroke)?