Tumor on the neck EDIT : He removed the stitches!

[ATez]

I just joined this forum, i have a problem.

About 3 weeks ago, my rat Pickle, went under the knife and had a tumor removed. From what the Vet told me it seems like it was a benign tumor but they said that can never know 100% for sure and i did have it removed at an early stage (about a week after i noticed a bump on his tummy). Now around here finding a vet who can do surgery on a rat is extremely rare but the clinic i've found are very professional about everything and they take good care of the animals. His surgery came up to 400$ and yeah i don't have that amount of money to spend on a monthly basis.

The problem I'm facing right now is his tumor came back but now it's under his neck. He doesn't seem bothered by it tho, it's not affecting his spirit and he still eats but it seems like it just came back sometime today. My boyfriend let them out earlier and didn't notice anything on him. We don't have a lot of money but if it's a better option to have him operated again we will do it. He recovered just fine last time and he didn't seem tromatized by the event (being gone for a few days and then confined to a smaller cage for a week untill his scar recovers properly).

The help i need from everyone here is your personal opinions. What would you do from personal experiences? Is there anything we should or should not feed him in this state, Is it most likely a cancerous tumor when it comes back so quickly (the vet did tell me there's a 80% chance a tumor will come back)? Is it a good idea to have him operated so soon again? I'm really worried about the fact that it's on his neck now...

He seemed so happy to be back home after his surgery i saw him eye boggling for the first time.

Now for any questions you guys might have, he's male (obviously), he's about 1 year 9 months old, he's lost weight after his surgery but he actually looks a lot healthier then before, he was pretty fat. When he was at the hospital and a few days after the surgery he didn't eat much at all but now he does and he begs for food when we open the fridge.

Before surgery he had 2 X-rays taken and everything looked fine, they saw no spottings or anything. But they told me at this stage it might not be developped yet so i don't know... the surgery itself went fine but they noticed his tempature went down a bit so they checked him out and found rat fleas on him. Both my rats were treated for it and got a major cleanup, They were washed, the cage, anything cardboard or wood they used to climb on was thrown out.

If I missed anything and someone has a question go ahead and ask me.

I really don't know what i should do right now.
Wait and see what happens or go with a second surgery. :/

 

[RatKat]

I really don't know what i should do right now.
Wait and see what happens or go with a second surgery. :/

Hey...

I'm pretty new to this forum too. I recently posted a topic asking for retroactive advice on a ruptured tumor. Perhaps it's my recent experience talking, but don't wait. Do it sooner than later and avoid regret.

 

[PitLuvs]

Honestly, our rat Shai developed a lump on his side and we figured we would wait. I regret that so deeply, as within the week it was too far gone to operate on It was massive and very aggressive, and our vet said he would loose too much blood should they try to remove. Not to scare you, but maybe scare you a little? I would get him in to be looked at. Are you sure its a tumor and not an abcess?

 

[jorats]

Is there any chance you can have the first lump sent for biopsy to find out if it is cancer and what type? Some vet clinics will keep the mass for a while in order to send it in when a new lump pops out. A biopsy will tell you 100% what the mass was. If it's a recurring cancer, then I probably would not have it removed. But if it's unrelated and benign, I'd probably have it removed. I'm saying this easily because I can afford it.
I don't know what I would do if I didn't have the funds. It would be hard to watch the lump grow to the point of having the rat put to sleep because of it.
It's really a hard decision.

 

[Moon]

Are you 100% sure it's a tumour, not a cyst or abscess? Sometimes they can feel tumour-like if you don't really know what you're feeling for.

Can you tell us roughly where you're located? Sometimes other members can help refer people to vets if you don't mind a little bit of a drive.

 

[ATez]

Thank you all for ur feedback, i decided to take him to the Vet today. He's staying overnight and will get a second surgery tomorrow.
I was told the risks are bigger because he's already been under anesthetics not that long ago and because of the location.
They tested it to see if it was a tumor or an abcess first... I kept hoping for the best untill she came back 5 minutes later with the result.
I'm worried he might not make it this time around but my boyfriend told me not to, said that Pickle is strong willed and pigheaded. That he is.
It was have the surgery and take a chance or watch him suffer within the next few weeks.
The vet said if i waited just one more week it might be right against the jugular vein and that at that point it would be too risky to do anything at all for him.
Right now there's a little bit of space to play with.

Since a second tumor popped up so fast (one month) she told me Pickle is most likely from a generation of rats that were breed to have tumors... so i'm guessing lab rats.
Then she told me of something that they can try. It's risk free but it's still being experimented on... she told me it was an implent that will control his hormones which they believe is causing a big amount of tumors. But like she said it's still experimental (but risk free!) so from the results they have so far it has a 60% rate of stopping tumors from forming. So he will also have this done to him and hopefully that'll be the end of his tumors. I hope for the best but I'm scared as hell.

 

[victoria]

Are you by any chance in Montreal? If you are we likely go to the same vet and they are Deslorelin implants. 5 of my rats have them and we have not had complications or side effects from the implants, but I do have one girl that keeps sprouting tumours. She's also got a huge mass on her throat that we think is an abscess (we had the first one on her throat removed and it was an abscess) but she is now to old and fragile for surgery. She is however very happy and unaffected by any of her lumps. Here's a thread I started when I first got the implants, if we do go to the same vet, you're in good hands. :hugs:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19025

ETA link.

 

[ATez]

Yeah, i am from Montreal. I go to a vet on Sherbrook: The Montreal Bird and Exotic Animal Hospital.
I tried to look on the internet for a cheaper place that had service just as good and good staff but i only found one with very bad reviews on it.
I think it was Anima... but yeah i read many bad comments and they all had a reply from the owner of the hospital... and ALL his answers were copy and paste.
Thought to myself wow.. talk about efford to keep your clients. =o

One woman said they wanted to pur her dog down because he hurt his leg. Apparently she didn't go with it and a few days later her dog was fine.
Oh and thanks for the link i'll check it out for sure!

 

[victoria]

Yeah, that's where I go too. I know it's not the cheapest place, but I have had mostly good experiences there and I have paid more. It sounds like you see Dr. Beaulieu, she's done one or two lump removals for me and she did a great job. I'm sure your little guy will do great and you'll have him home in no time.

It's my understanding he implants are supposed to be the equivalent of sterilization (spaying/neutering), which may help reduce the incidence of mammary tumours, but I'm not sure how likely it is that a male has two mammary tumours pop up so close together. You can get the lump biopsied/tested after they remove it, but because they send it to the faculty to be done it's expensive (IMO) and I don't know how much it could change the prognosis. It's one thing to know what kind of tumour your rat has, but it doesn't often change what you're able to do about it.

 

[mamarat]

The only time I pay to have a lump "tested" is when they get another one. If it's cancer my vet won't remove the second lump. It's 130 dollars here for the test.

Good luck with your little guy.

 

[ATez]

It's one thing to know what kind of tumour your rat has, but it doesn't often change what you're able to do about it.

That's why i never had the first lump analized to be honest. :/
It's extra money i can't afford to spend that won't change the outcome of things.

And on top of that the very same day i need to take Pickle to the Vet i get a letter saying that during the year i was sent direct disposit in my bank account for Ontario taxes when i don't live there. I got no letters previously concerning that and the amount is a total of 665$. So since it was sent to me because some idiot working for the city made a mistake and typed down i lived in Ontario i need to pay it back. Quite frankly i didn't notice any changes with my funds, i tend to be carefull and not waste more then i need to. I am a bit stressed out, with Pickle's surgery (they haven't called me yet) it's well over 1000$ that i need to pay.

Well, thank you all again for your kind words. They all make me feel better!! :heart:

EDIT: Clinic called me a little bit ago, he's still sleeping but Pickle made it through the surgery! If everything is fine now i can get him back tomorrow! :joy:

 

[victoria]

Woot! I'm sure he will be very happy to be home tomorrow

I know one of Sophie's lumps was examined after it was removed (her vet costs are paid by her previous family) and it cost somewhere in the neighbourhood of $300... a little too expensive for me for any insight it may provide. Mind you, I'll pay way more than that for other treatments, just not to have a lump examined. I'm sorry you're having tax issues, I know I lost a lot of my provincial credits when I moved here in 2009.

 

[mamarat]

That's great news for Pickle.

 

[ATez]

Whee! I am happy to say Pickle is back home! =D
He's doing great for a second surgery so soon! On his first day home he was allowed to stretch his little legs and hop about for a good hour and more. He seemed a bit confused as why he had to go back in the smaller cage tho! I really can't put these guys back together right away, they're both a bit too dominant and they tend to pick a fight! I'm going try to have them out together more often this time around. Last time i didn't cause they had rat fleas!!! Pickle was treated and Crank was going to be treated the next week and i really didn't want the fleas to go crazy on Pickle right away again... but when they got back together holy smoke tention was HIGH in their home! They were staring down and puffing at each others over and over for long periods of time and i had to break a nasty fight. They calmed down after a few days but still...

I'm worried that'll happen again. I THINK Pickle tries to play but Crank doesn't like it but i'm not 100% sure. :/
You'd think they broke into a fight after being seperated for a week because the cage only smelled like Crank but no! They had fleas so everything was cleaned and i'm a bit for a germophobe and small.bugs.i.cant.see.phobe so trust me, they got a CLEAN UP! XD So yeah... i don't why it went so bad but this time i'm trying to keep contact between them!

Oh and on my bill it says i have to go back in 2 weeks to have stitches removed where the implent was inserted. I'm curious can i have two rats with a tendency to pick a fight or overgroom eachother together? After one week the scar on his neck should be nice and healed but the stitch will only be gone in 2 weeks! I'm scared Crank might wanna gnaw on it and hurt Pickle.

What should i do oh rat gurus?

 

[victoria]

Stitches where the implant was inserted? My girls all had a tiny cut and it was glued... I would call and double check. Could it be the spot where they removed that tumour that has stitches? I am going to defer to someone with more experience about the grooming, I've barely had issues post surgery with groomers, more so with rats that think they are invincible. Glad to hear he's back home!

 

[ATez]

Stitches where the implant was inserted? My girls all had a tiny cut and it was glued... I would call and double check. Could it be the spot where they removed that tumour that has stitches? I am going to defer to someone with more experience about the grooming, I've barely had issues post surgery with groomers, more so with rats that think they are invincible. Glad to hear he's back home!

Nah, the paper say it's on his back:
"Il est necessaire de revenir (sans frais) pour faire enlever le point de suture sur le dos. Rappels: Pickle, 14Jrs: Sutures"
Maybe they wittness his 180 degree turn he does to clean himself. =O
He also think he's invincible... I don't think he cares he's been cut open twice. lol

 

[lilspaz68]

First of all your rat likely had mites (cannot be seen with the naked eye) as rat fleas are surprisingly rare. The other parasite could've been lice and you can see them.

Two, with males its not advisable to let them be separated long, even if you only let them have Out times together that's okay, keeps both rats in Friends mode rather than the quick reversion to Strangers mode where they might fight. What are they like when both are healthy? How big is the incision where the tumour is? I normally put rats right back in with their cagemates but if you have some aggression issues, give it a few days but I think a week may be too long...the incision just needs to be closed and healing nicely.

 

[ATez]

Oh, i could see them after i knew they were there but they were really really small!
I online actually saw them while i was wearing a very bright yellow shirt and picked up Crank against me to put him back in his home. My shirt had at least 15 very small redish bugs clinging to my shirt and i had to scratch one away from my wrist which kind of freaked me out for them. They have another treatment for those in a week and a half.

And Thanks for the advice! I'll try to get them back together as soon as Pickle looks good to go.

 

[lilspaz68]

yep you had lice...I assume they got an ivermectin injection for them? Did they tell you all the other things to do to prevent reinfection?

 

[ATez]

Well, i have no idea where i got them from but they had written down on the bills what must be washed with what type of soap (they had some) and to throw out and replace and such. I did all of that and i'm the type of person who can look at things in front of me and see them as "infected" and "clean". This is what i did:

Cover the kitchen table with a plastic cloth from the dollar store.
Clean the smaller cage (i use it for transport) in the bathtub. Everycorner of it! Then i put some towels fresh out of the dryer in there.
We took Pickle, cleaned him and then put the medication at the back of his neck then we put him in the small clean cage and put it on the kitchen table.
Did the same with Crank and put them both in there so we could do a big clean up of their big cage.
We put in the garbage a wooden ladder they had in there and got another one and any cardboard boxes they used to play in. They would have been all over those.
I clean all my floors and carpets with a steem mop for over an hour and couches. Anything they had made of fabric was machine washed in Hot water and then given a second since just to make sure. I made sure ANYTHING they every got into contact with was washed. Then i threw out the plastic cover that was on the table.

Then we took them and put them back in the big cage and cleaned the small one again and threw the towels we had in there right in the washer.
They don't scratch as much as they used to, i noticed a BIG difference! I really don't know how i've missed them before tho. Makes me feel like a bad mother.

But please do tell me if i've missed anything.
Oh and on the phone she told me they were "Des poux a Rats" so i just called them rat fleas.... now that i think of it i was just screwing up the translation.
Poux IS lice... argh! Silly me! :emb: