Things to discuss before surgery

[jorats]

I had a talk about this with my vet. She's not too keen on giving out the info because it's something she's perfected over the years. 10 years ago she was at an exotic vet seminar for rats and learned the right way to do it. But through the years she perfected it to the point that I'd say it's almost fool proof. I've only ever lost one rat after surgery and it wasn't due to the surgery.
She injects butopharnol, metacam, domitor and ketamine, before and during surgery at different dosage and percentage at each stage.
As for sutures she uses Dexon 4/0 but also uses ligaclips internally.
She also says that the scrotum is full of bacteria. When she opens the testes/tunic, whatever she pulls out and removes, she does not put it back in. She said that you can never clean it clear of germs. Some vets do keep it or put it back in and so the bacteria will grow and cause an abscess.

My vet also told me that she appreciates vets learning the proper method and is absolutely willing to tell them her methods. She gave me permission to give out her email address to other vets wanting to learn a good method, a successful surgical protocol for their rats. So pm if you and your vet are interested.

 

[Dahlas]

Wow that is great Jo.....very interesting.

 

[Godmother]

Very interesting! You may be getting some PMs.

 

[SQ]

:thumbup:

 

[Lise]

How interesting, that jorats vet who is widely regarded by us as fantastic uses the all dreaded injectable anesthetics. And she has never lost a rat yet.

There are many ways to do things, and I think you should think long and hard before disregarding a vet due to advice written by a non vet.

PS -- Jorats, the exact same combo was given to my girl who was spayed. (A vet who I don't normally use, but the only one I can afford for spays.) She was up and doing great only a few hours after her surgery when I went to pick her up.

 

[Dewi]

Well dosage is an important factor even if ketamine and the likes are used. This may account for some of the rat deaths in surgery. I'm pretty certain my vet uses midazolam and who know what else, and I do consider her to be very experienced with rats and trust her with my rat bags.

 

[SQ]

Lise,
very few of us have trained experienced exotic vets specializing in rats.
Those drugs are used with caution as they can be fatal for rats (the Rat Health Care book).

Jorats vet has what sounds like a complicated procedure worked out

before and during surgery at different dosage and percentage at each stage.

That is very different then the average vet, whom does not have the same degree of training and experience in treating exotics, using those drugs on rats.
Much, much better if vets use only gas aesthesia and safer pain meds such as medacam.
Injectable aesthesia and pre-aesthesia are often fatal for rats ....
regardless of your opinion, that happens to be fact.

I don't want to see any more rats dying for no reason then that the vet gave them the wrong dose of one of those dangerous drugs.
As someone who cares about rats, I would think that would be important to you as well.

 

[Lise]

I have two vets (at different clinics) who have done surgery on my rats, both of whom are exotics specialists. In fact one has even practiced exotic only medicine at a clinic in another province that didn't see anything except exotics.

All I'm saying, is that going by your book of things to avoid you would actually be telling people to avoid a great vet like Joanne has access to or I have access to....

 

[Dewi]

Okay this is what my vet uses:
Premed - midazolam (sedative), butorphanol (analgaesic)
Anaesthesia - isoflurane with O2.
Post surgical pain management is metacam.
She also gives subcut fluids, I don't know if this is given all the time but is often given.

It's unusual I don't think she normally writes this down for me (one of my rats had surgery today - at 3 years of age I must add!), but she did. Very handy indeed as I didn't need to ask.

 

[jorats]

My vet doesn't normally write it down.
But I think it should always be written down so we know what we pay for. :giggle:

 

[Maple]

Wow, to much for me, I think I'll leave it to the doctor.

 

[mikey]

This sounds really great guys...i'm going to look over your info and show it to my boss...if all corresponds with her thoughts on treatment..i hope to make it a permanent SOP at my clinic!

Thanks for All your work

 

[ryelle]

I can soon afford to get Patrick neutered and i have some questions. I've never had a rat go through surgery before AT all and i want to make sure it is done properly. The vet clinic i am planning on using said they have done successful rat surgery before, but i still want to ask questions.
I hope you don't mind, i just need to clarify some things

d. keeping the rat warm during and after surgery as rats can not regulate their body
temperature for up to 24 hours after getting anaesthetic. They need to be able to move
closer and away from the heat source.

How would the rat be kept warm during the surgery and after while in the care of the vet?
When i get him home, how do i keep him warm? I have a heatmat from a terrarium that i used to keep a Giant African Land Snail in (it was kept outside the tank so it has no scary's on it)- would that be good to use if it was wrapped in a towel or something or is it a bit OTT? lol

h. will the vet do a health check prior to surgery - for example: rats with respiratory problems or heart problems are at risk from anaesthetic. Surgery should be delayed until the rat is healthy or not done at all.

Would i expect the vet to do a full health check? And is this the point i ask the questions or should i make a phone call to reception? (the techs are nice and either ask the vet for me or get him/her to ring me back).

 

[jorats]

Every vet does things differently. But my vet likes to see the rat before the surgery and does a full exam then to make sure the rat is healthy enough to go into surgery. Also the day of the surgery, the vet checks over the rat once again.

My vet uses a heat pad for the rat to keep them warm.
At home, keeping your rat covered with no drafts should be good enough unless there were complications, then you'd need a heating pad for him.

 

[SQ]

I usually discuss things with the vet before making the appointment either during a vet appointment or over the phone.
Many vets use a snuggle safe which is heated in the microwave and will keep an animal warm for hours. I use a snuggle safe or a hot water bottle wraped in several layers of fleece. Your hospital cage needs to be large enough so that the rat can get closer or further away from the heat source.

Discussing the aesthesia is very, very important as we have seen too many rats die ... please see my previous posts.

Was recently speaking to someone who said that we should make sure vets are using sterile packs when doing surgery on rats ... and using different sterile packs not reusing the same one. If they are just using "cold packs" there can be infection, for example: lots of neuter abcesses.

 

[ryelle]

I will have the money to get it done in FIVE DAYS!! When a Cheque clears (finally sorted it with my old landlord, WAHOO). I gota get off my butt and start sorting this out now - getting the questions asked, and making sure me and patrick are 100% ok with it lol.

Hospital cage... I think Patrick and Sid may have to swap cages for a few days, or i may have to convert an old parrot cage. I will talk with them and my mum ^^ hehe.

Would it be better to have a larger transport cage for bringing back from the vet with towels? I have a cat box or a little rat box.


I know every vet does it different, and some like to keep the animal over night, but on average how long does a spay and neuter take to complete? And how do they decide when they come home? I think my dog had to eat something before he could come home, i cant really remember

 

[jorats]

It takes my vet 10 minutes to complete a neuter but she's had lots of practice. My vet likes to wait until the animal is awake and eating but with us, she lets us take them very early. We bring in our rat at 9am, and bring him home at 12pm. But we are the exception because she knows us very well.

 

[SQ]

Around here, you drop your pet off in the morning and picjk them up around 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
It is important to leave food and water with them.

 

[SQ]

Bump because all the stickied posts in the reference section were lost