Sweet little Peyton and possible Pituitary Tumor/Seizures

[missjenmarie]

Hi all, I am new to this board - and have found a lot of the past threads very helpful in regards to trying to figure out what is wrong with my sweet little Peyton. She is a hairless rat, approximately 20 months old. She had a birth-sister, but sadly she died about 5 months ago suddenly, and I was told it was an unseen tumor in her lungs - though it was never really verified. Since then, I have become Peytons bff and super rat mom, as I decided not to get another rat because I was fearing the cycle of death. (1st time rat mom)...anyways, Peyton has flourished since then, as has been happier as ever. We have such a close amazing relationship, I love her to pieces. She is has had a URI twice, but recovered with no problems, thank goodness. And then, a little less than a week ago, I came home to find her completely lethargic. I immediately called the vet and wasn't able to get in with my regular vet for Peyton. I decided to go to another exotic vet anyways because she needed immediate care. She made it through the car ride there, but she was cold to the touch and completely lethargic and listless. The doctor basically was rather short and brief with me, telling me to just go home and make her comfortable and that she would probably not make it through the night. I was heartbroken and didn't even know what to think. I brought her home and just held her in my arms, I didn't leave her out of my sight. It was a roller coaster ride of emotions, one minute up, next couple down as she perked up but then seemed to lay lifeless. However, she made it through the night. She is such a strong little girl.

I took Peyton to my regular vet two days later because that is the only time I could get in, and he held her in observation for several hours, but claims he was unable to see the symptoms I was seeing at home like not being able to hold food with front paws, not eating by herself or drinking from her water bottle. He claims she was just "resting comfortably"...but I knew there was something going on that I desperately wanted the answers to, and sadly I left with nothing but "wait and see".

Two days later I went to go and peek in on her while she was sleeping and as I lifted the blanket she had over her- she was lying basically on her back...she perked her head up and then starting convulsing (which I am pretty near sure it was a grand mal seizure) I had never seen her do this before. I took her out after she had calmed down to comfort her and she was totally disoriented, for obvious reasons. Since then, she developed what I call "shaking like a wet dog". She does it all the time now and usually obsessively grooms herself before and after mostly focusing on her face and head. Of course rats groom, but this was something else entirely. I can't seem to figure out what the "shaking like a wet dog" thing is, but assuming it is neurological. Does anyone know what this is/what this means??

I was taking Peyton back to the doctors in the morning, and I spent the entire day researching Peyton's symptoms trying to make sense of anything. I saw YouTube videos of rats with PT and Peyton doesn't seem near as worse as those I had seen, like the extremely poor balance and coordination (Peyton seems wobbly to me, but it isn't that extreme). She does however seem to struggle using her front paws to hold food. She also flails them in the air a bit before she grooms herself. After she eats (a/d science diet cat food and baby food) she does thing strange thing with her front paws and it's like she is rubbing them in what looks like when a cat "kneads" (not exactly but pretty darn close). She does it repeatedly and sort of circles around for near a minute and then goes onto whatever, like grooming or going back to sleep. Does anyone know what this means?

Peyton went to the vet again this morning and stayed there under observation for about 7 hours, as the doctor was trying to give it time to see the signs I was seeing at home. Upon my bringing up about the possibility of PT and seeking medication that I can looked into, he sent me home with predinsone and an anti-biotic. Peyton just took her first dose this evening and will be continuing it in hopes some of her symptoms are suppressed and she can function more normally.

This came out of nowhere (much like most rat illnesses I suppose)...and I just can't seem to figure out what is going on with her. Obviously with certain symptoms it is clearly neurological - which is why I am assumptive that it is probably a PT because I don't feel like she could have had a stroke and does not have an inner ear infection. I suppose I don't know what I am looking for here....just some support or suggestions. It has been a very rough time for me, and I just want nothing more than for Peyton to be happy and healthy.

 

[Fidget]

As I was reading I was thinking that she needed an antibiotic at least as a trial, and as I got further I was thinking PT and Prednisone should be tried. As I got further I read that your vet had given both, DeadOn for what I would have hoped for from my vet! I think your vet gave the right things for what your kid is showing. I'd say this vet is a keeper, and best hopes for your baby Peyton. Apart from doing tests I don't think anything could be done better for her than you & the vets have done it.

 

[missjenmarie]

Thanks Ratamuffin, I appreciate your response. I went to 2 vets, the 1st one was because I just needed to see one asap because I couldn't get into my regular vet that had seen Peyton before. I felt totally duped there. He was indeed and exotic vet, but he literally looked at her for less than 10 minutes and left me going home in tears because he said she was too far gone. And I believed him! Because I trusted he was telling me the right information!

And yes, thank goodness I got in with my regular vet. He is very amazing, knowledgeable and informative. He does assure me though that unless I went to some crazy medical facility to get an MRI on Peyton, I will still not know anything concrete and can only gauge her progress/decline by observing her and how the medications are doing with her. From reading previous posts, I have high hopes, hopefully not too preternaturally, about this. I don't know if maybe her PT is gradual and I perhaps caught it as soon as I possibly could, or if she just has an abscess or clot or something, still causing similar effects and probably leading to the same logical conclusion.

I'm not sure if this is going to work, but here is a picture of my sweet little Peyton from maybe a month ago.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Fidget]

We hope medicine can cure everything, it can't, not in ratties or humans. We always hope the worst diagnosis is wrong. Sometimes it actually is, but that's what we call miracles, but they are so rare.
When we have pets we always have angels in our lives tho. The smallest of them can open the gates of heaven to us, or not. Critters don't see what you put out,they just know what you ARE in your heart.
and OMG, that kid has take up bigtime room in your heart.

 

[missjenmarie]

Aw...that was a very kind and thoughtful little note my dear. It made my heart warm.
Speaking of warming my heart - some major news just happened.
Peyton woke up from napping and I sat next to her and talked to her while she went over to lap up some of that mushy cat food. I told her she was such a good girl and that she is so strong. I tapped her water bottle as I have been doing every time I see her eat, and usually never get a response - and this time! She licked it! and then kept licking! She must have lapped the water bottle for over 2 minutes straight! She hadn't touched her water bottle in literally a week. I had been force feeding her some water. As if this wasn't exciting enough, she then proceeded to "hold" and nibble on this rice treat stick that was her favorite. She grasped it with her front paws and a few times I saw it go off the ground. I was so excited!
Peyton had just only had her first dose of pred+antibiotic less than 7 hours ago. Could this be the meds working??? Or was it just a hopeful one time miracle?
I am about to go to bed, and that was probably the best thing that I have seen/heard in days. I feel hopeful and I am so proud of my little girl.

Thanks again for your kind words.

 

[Fidget]

Depending on what's going on the antibiotics could cure something and she'd be fixed up A-OK.
But in light of what you've said more likely the prednisone can help her keep her abilities & independance (& therefore life enjoyment) longer. I don't think it extends her life, I think it extends her good days and therefore lessens the rough days left. I know you are going to be one of those moms that make the best of the bad days for her. And you will be amazed at how easy it is because of how close it brings you.

 

[jorats]

It could also have been a stroke but still an antibiotic and pred is definitely the right course of action here.
The cat food, oh boy. That is much too high protein for a rat. Can you find Extrusion for hamsters or at best Oxbow. High protein will severely damage the kidneys. Also, plenty of fresh veggies daily. The baby food is ok if she's not eating anything solid. You can add water to rat blocks to make them mushy and soft. You can also give her Ensure or Boost.

 

[mamarat]

Peyton is so pretty. Fingers crossed for your little sweetie.

 

[missjenmarie]

Thanks for all your replies guys. I really appreciate your suggestions and support.

Peyton is continuing to surprise me with her strength and today drank from her water bottle again, and ate a few cherrios and some slices of a carrot, along with the baby food. I took the cat food out because of your suggestion. My vet suggested that to me because it was high calories to help her stay "nutritious" if she wasn't eating her normal food, which she still really isn't. It was the only thing she actually ate on her own while she was very sick, so that is why I had still had that in her cage for her to eat. Within less than 3 days she gained 3 grams, for better or worse. At least she wasn't loosing. She only weighs 333 grams, she is a little one. She weight 330 before she was sick, so I assume this is a good thing. But for now, I will leave it out of the cage for a while and see how she does without it.

Question, if you might know besides the kidney effects - could "too much protein" cause her to be "itchy" or like be excessively grooming? I had read that somewhere when I was researching around, but wanted to see if any of you knew anything about it or had any experiences with it. I am still trying to figure out why she is doing things like that and "shaking like a wet dog" along with "cat kneading" after she eats. I keep thinking maybe she is experiencing a numbness in her hands which is why she can't hold up food, but when she tries to or when she eats anything, she does this, like maybe after trying to use her hands they became tingly or something? Just my suspicion, trying to make sense of it. Today she actually grasped the cherrios with her hands, sometimes resting it on the ground or on something propped, but it did indeed come off the ground up to her mouth a few times, which I was thrilled about.

I feel very proud of her, and hopeful that the pred+antibiotic is really helping her, even though it has only been like 36 hours. I suppose waiting a full week will really give me a better idea of her progress, but I have been so happy about what I have seen over the last 36 hours!

This is Peyton from like a week or two ago. She is amazing and happy.

By missjenmarie at 2012-02-25

By missjenmarie at 2012-02-25

 

[jorats]

Too much protein can definitely make her itchy and create dermal issues. The shaking... that might be a concern. The only times I've seen full body shakes like a wet dog was when the rat was in pain. How is she otherwise, appetite, poops, activity level?

 

[missjenmarie]

The shaking is a concern to me but I can't seem to figure out what is it...obviously I hope not pain......I wasn't sure if it was "seizure" related or just neurological...but I guess I am just going to watch her for the next few days to see if those symptoms subside at all.

Her appetite is more up than it was. She is eating cherrios, baby food, and snacking on a rice stick - occasionally taking yogie treats.
She is pooping just fine, that hasn't seemed to change at all even though she is sick. They are all formed and look good.

Her activity level, last night, seemed higher than normal considering she has been resting/recovering. I just put her in the small cage, opposed to her tall 2 story one because of safety when she was disoriented. She seems to want more space as her "resting" area, and heating pad take up most of that tiny cage...I'm trying to figure out what to do because if she wants to be more active, by all means I want to let her as long as it feels safe and that she won't injure herself. She seems a lot more coordinated than a few days ago. Her bigger cage has ramps I took out since forever ago because she liked to climb, but I'm thinking if I put all of the ramps back in, maybe that could work? I don't want to think she could handle it too prematurely. So I guess I will wait and see...just feel bad because the cage I have her in now is so tiny, there isn't much room to do anything but sleep and eat.

The last 2 days have all been mega improvements. I keep thinking those meds are really helping with all of this. She still is exhibiting those "ticks" or tremors or whatever to call them....and I still don't know what they mean or why they are happening. I haven't seen a seizure since she started the meds so i don't know. I have the cat food out of her cage since yesterday so I will pay attention to see if her itchiness subsides at all. She seems to have no appetite for her regular assortment of rat food, but I am glad she is at least eating the cherrios and baby food. At least she has some kind of appetite. Also, semi-drinking from her water bottle again, very excited about that. She's not drinking as much as I'd like her to be but I am glad she is approaching is on her own.

 

[jorats]

It does sound like some good improvements. Head shakes can definitely be neurological, especially those with PT, I've noticed they do it a lot. But not the full body shake but that doesn't mean that it isn't. I just never saw it yet.
Now that I'm thinking about it, anything with the ears too can cause a shake of the head too.

 

[missjenmarie]

Thanks for that.

The vet said that he didn't seem to see anything going on in her ears....so I just had to trust him. I don't see anything going on either, but when she grooms she does focus on mostly her head, ears and mouth more than normal. When she shakes it's usually a full body shake, not necessarily a head shake. I know rats can "shake it off" after grooming or something, but definitely not as much as she is now. It's just a little too frequent to pass it off as no big deal. I hope it subsides in the coming days, but for now I have no idea. I wish someone else had an experience with the shaking so I can get a better grasp on why she's doing it. Also especially concerned about the "cat kneading" thing she does. Just trying to understand it and hope maybe someone else had seen that behavior in their rat before, PT or not. I have a video of it I can try to post so you can see what I am more specifically.

Thanks for all your help and support, I really appreciate it. So glad I found this forum. You guys are all super nice, informative and supportive. So thank you.

 

[jorats]

I did see the full body shake, just yesterday in fact. I met up with a fellow ratty lover and she took in this little female who is losing huge patches of hair and doing the full body shake. This little girl also has a prolapsed lens and I figure she was old but now I'm wondering if more is going on. I'm sure Jane will keep me posted on the little girl.

 

[missjenmarie]

Peyton seems to have been doing well, but just today she started exhibited the dreaded "falling over" episodes. She was grooming herself just fine over the last week, and just today she seemed to lose her balance om several occassions. Also when she was sitting, she seemed like she was slightly swaying her body side to side. It isn't extreme, but just a noticeable change from yesterday in a bad way. What does this mean? Does it mean the prednisone isn't really working? If it was working wouldn't it have subsided these symptoms? Why would she start to exhibit the falling over 4 days after she started the pred? Should I be looking into another medication? Or does this mean the PT is beginning to rapidly advance? Or is it a sign that it's something else entirely? Sigh, this sucks. I was getting really hopeful about her. Any advice would be helpful, thank you.

 

[missjenmarie]

At 5:45pm my sweet little Peyton passed away in my arms. Peyton was a fighter, but sadly the tumor began to shut her body down rapidly and she couldn't fight any longer. May you rest in peace, my sweet little one. Give your sister Saetia lots of smooches for me. I hope there are bountiful fields of yogies wherever you go. You gave me so much joy and happiness during your short little life. I could only hope I did the same for you. Momma lubs you sweetheart. Life will never be the same without you. Your tiny little paw prints are forever etched in my heart. I'm trying to take comfort in remembering all of the amazing moments we had together and know that you are are not in any pain, although I find myself in quite a bit of pain. May the universe embrace you with cuddles and kisses. I love you Peyton, my sweet little one.

 

[mamarat]

I'm so sorry. RIP sweet girl.

 

[victoria]

Prednisone only helps alleviate symptoms temporarily. There comes a point when the tumour has grown so much, the anti-inflammatory effects of the Prednisone don't have enough of an effect. You can try chemo drugs (Bromocriptine or Cabergoline) but they don't always work and can be pretty expensive.