Sudden dominance..?

[Scythe]

My biggest and oldest boy, Alphonse (450g & 17months old), has suddenly decided to be a little brat.

The last couple of days when I've had Al, Ed and Roy out, I'll play with them, get them riled up and popcorning around ... But after a couple minutes, Al will start to puff up and chase the others. And you can tell Roy and Ed don't want part of this; they run away and wont go somewhere if he's there while he's being like this. He pins them, holds them there, then starts grooming. he also... 'bum rushes' them, LOL thats the only way I can think to describe it.

Ed is already a complete chicken and attacks the other two out of fear/dominance(he's getting neutered on Tuesday... :cry: ), so when Al gets like this, it freaks him out even more. I tried a couple times to grab Al, hold him, pet his furr back down and calm him down... but as soon as I let go, he puffs back up and runs at the other two again!

It doesn't last a long time(maybe five/ten minutes...), and he doesn't draw blood, and he ONLY does it out of the cage. (He also does the 'marking shuffle' around corners no matter how much I nudge him away and tell him No...)

He doesn't need a neuter too, does he? OR is there some way to tell him what he's doing isn't nice and he needs to stop it?

 

[jorats]

It seems like Al gets overwhelmed. When he does this, instead of picking him up, put your hand over his body and slowly and gently press his head down making his chin touch the floor. Hold for a second or two then release. This reminds him that he doesn't need to dominate during out time while you are there. I find it also calms rats that are overwhelmed with their hormones. If you see that it does help, continue to do this and eventually you will see it won't be needed anymore.

 

[Scythe]

Not even five inutes out of the cage for out time and Al has thrown a 'fit'. I was playing with him, throwing a square of fleece over him and letting him find his way out. It seemed like he thought it was fun; he'd come popcorning out of it, and then popcorn back to me and I'd do it again, etc. But then Ed came over and Al suddenly FLIPPED. He puffed, immediately, and chased him under the cage. I reached under and scooped them out and tried to pin him, but he flipped out again and went for a warning bite and missed. I finally managed to pin him, and I held it for what felt like a full minute and he STILL wouldnt unpuff... I gave him the benefit of the doubt and let him go, an he wandered off, still puffed, and then Roy walks over to play(Roy's playing is nipping them in the butt and running away... :roll: ) and Al starts buttrushing him! He pinned him against the bookcase and only stopped when i pushed him away and tried to pin him again.

It's so weird, he's NEVER done this before, and it's ONLY when he's out of the cage... Is it maybe I'm getting him too excited and he can't differentiate excitement and hormone?

 

[jorats]

That can definitely be it. He may not be able to come down from his excitement. Continue to put your hand over him and press down. Continue to push him away when he's going after the other guys. Also, try to not get him excited and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Scythe]

I hope it's not him that needs the neuter, and not Ed... I dont wanna snip the wrong guy! LOL

Would another rats hormones cause another rat to be nervous and afraid? I thought of this earlier because out of nowhere Ed jumped and ran under the cage and into the wall like a bat out of hell. And no one moved to startle him or nothing. He hasn't done that in a long time and maybe its just a coincidence with that and Al happening at the same time.

Ugh, Boys! :wallbang: anic:

 

[jorats]

How old are all the boys in the colony?

 

[Scythe]

Eds' 13 months old.
Roy and Al are 16 months old. Approximate, I think they might be older.

 

[jorats]

Ok, so there's no one coming into puberty. Any changes lately?

 

[Scythe]

None that I can think of. I switched to a hypoallergenic detergent? But that wouldnt explain why it happens outside the cage, I don't think. I can't think of anything thats changed lately...

 

[jorats]

No, it would have to change like adding a new pet to the home or changing the play area or cage. So that can't be it.

 

[Scythe]

No, there are no new pets recently. There were kids here on sunday but all they did was look at them, they didnt let them out to play or anything.

 

[jorats]

For now we'll assume that everything is normal and Al is not sick or anything. I would continue with covering him with your hand, letting him feel your calm energy and stopping him from bum rubbing Ed. Rats get into these states every once and a while. It's normal and part of a healthy colony.

 

[Scythe]

I will try that, and hope I don't lose my finger LOL. He seems to really not appreciate being 'pinned' and even the first time i did it he seemed to know what I was doing and pulled a stubborn child 'I don't want a time out!' move.

 

[jorats]

You don't need to pin him so much as to just lay your hand over his body and press down on the head. And if he does turn around to bite you, then he's the one needing the neuter.

A rule of thumb I have... bite the human means immediate neuter. Bite rats means we work on it, if it doesn't work out then we neuter.

 

[Scythe]

Pins the only word I could think of. I put my palm over his body to hold him down, and use my fingers to press his chin to the ground. It doesn't seem to work, though, as he starts making 'huff'ing sounds and freaks out.

Ed got through an entire out time today without being pinned or attacked by Al, who spent all of out time being harassed by Roy(who just wanted to play) and occasionally attacking him all puffed up(I guess he'd had enough or Roy got him worked up).

 

[Scythe]

I've watched them closely today... I notice that it always starts after I've played with him, or when Roy(and, on occasion, Ed) chases after him and plays the "I'm gonna bite you in the butt and run away" game except he doesn't run away fast enough because Al either gets really mad, or gets way too excited in the game and starts a fight.

So weird, he used to just ignore it and wander off to do his own thing. I'm really debating trading Ed's neuter for one for Al, but I'm not sure if it would really do much since he's not really a mean boy he's just strange outside of the cage.

 

[jorats]

Naw, I'd stick with the original plan and don't get Al overly excited.

 

[Scythe]

I try not to... It's Roy who does. @_@ I guess Roy thinks since he's gotten bigger again he can take them all on.

 

[jorats]

I bet in a bit of time you will find they will settle down again.