Something... off with Plumeria

[M0onkist]

I can't put my finger on it - or maybe it's just very, very subtle things, but since I've gotten back from my grandmother's farm she doesn't seem to be acting as she normally does.

I know that my boyfriend took great care of her - he kept her food dish full and played with her, her water bottle was always full etc.

She's been very quiet. Normally she's the type to rocket around the cage and constantly be jumping up to watch me if she hears me walking around (hopefully to grab treats from me). She doesn't pee outside of the cage unless she's been kept out for a good couple of hours (and that's really my fault, so I don't blame her).

Since I've gotten back she's been very quiet, spending the vast majority of her time on the top of the sleep cube (she never sleeps inside of it, always on the top if she's there). That's unusual enough, of course. And when I take her out to play normally she spends 100% of the time running around the bed, over and mostly under the sheets, moving here, moving there, etc. But when I put her on the bed, generally she stays where I put her, or travels around 1 foot away.

The more disturbing (unless I'm being paranoid) thing is that she's left poopies on the top of the sleep cube. She's never to my knowledge done that before, because she sleeps up there (and sleeping on poopies can't be fun). She's also left a few poopies on the second level of her cage (which again, she never does. She does pee up there since Princess died, but never poopies).

I took her out to play with her and left her on the bed while I went to grab my mug of tea. When I came back, she'd pooped about five times *on the bed*. Never, ever, EVER done before.

She doesn't run immediately for treats if I offer them, or eat them immediately when I give them to her (she takes them in her mouth and puts them down at her feet).

Her sides (abdomen between thigh and ribcage) do seem to be heaving more than should be normal for her (more dramatic movement, I mean), but I listened to her chest very carefully and can't make anything out.

Am I just being paranoid? I don't think I am, but I'm utterly confused as to what these tiny signs could point to... any ideas, suggestions?

 

[mamarat]

Could she still be grieving for Princess? Poor sweetie.

 

[M0onkist]

It's certainly possible, I guess - Princess passed December 5th, 2008. I've always taken great care to spend as much time interacting with her as possible, to make up for her being an 'only rat'.

In a month or two I'm going to be getting a boyo rat from Lynds to be a little brother for her.

Maybe me being away scared her somehow?

I'm not really sure... but in her whole life she's never pooped on the bed, only in the sink if I'm trying to give her a bath (a stress/fright reaction, but Princess always pooped during baths too).

She's currently about a year and 6.5 months old, or thereabouts - she *is* a petstore rat, I confess, but the last petstore rat I'll ever get. Rescues from here on out.

 

[mamarat]

How long were you away from her? Were you her main caregiver before you left? At 18 months she could be sick as well. I would take her to the vet if I was worried about her.

 

[M0onkist]

I was away from Sunday until Wednesday - so not that long, technically, but perhaps too long for her liking.

I'm definitely her main/only caregiver, although Tim (my bf) plays with her as well.

She hasn't been as interested in food either... not since I got back. Normally she'll take six lab blocks from my hand in an awful hurry and stash them in a variety of places - this time I had to stick them in her food bowl as she just wasn't interested in doing much with them (the first she took, held in her mouth/paws, then dropped to the floor).

Things have been really stressed since last Friday - found out my grandmother was in the hospital, and not doing well at all etc. She's doing better now, the reason I left was to go up to her farm to help care for her.

 

[mamarat]

How was she with your bf? Eating and playing normally? Maybe she's punishing you for going away? I don't know if rats do that, I've heard of dogs doing that. She could also be feeling your stress over your grandmother.

 

[jorats]

It's always a concern when there's a change in behaviour... this seems like a big one.
Could anything have scared her or a big change in routine when you left? That can throw a rat off when there's a change in routine or more noise or more scents in the air, a new pet, things like that.
But so far the changes you've described doesn't seem to be health related only behavior related.
I'd give her some extra loving and see if she goes back to her old self... keeping in mind that at her age, it's very natural for them to become "older"... they sleep more, they tire easily, their eating habits can change...

 

[M0onkist]

I was just holding her and listening to her chest with my stethoscope (which I use exclusively for ratties) - she'd been out of her cage for maybe five minutes, and she pee'd on me - something that, aside from when she was the tiniest eeper, she's never done.

It's definitely a big behavior change - from crazy outgoing neurotic-run-around rattie to sleep-all-day-and-night-or-just-rest-and-watch-from-the-cube.

There are no new pets in our apartment, certainly - no new plants either. If one of the apartment tenants near us got another animal I wouldn't know about it, unfortunately (the pot-smokers do have a cat, poor thing, but only one so far as I can tell).

No change in diet at all - same seed mix and lab blocks (she favors the lab blocks more since Princess died).

I'm going to make sure she's extra-loved, and hope this gets a bit better.

What's the definition of senior-citizenship for rats?

 

[M0onkist]

I've definitely been punished for going away before - but that usually entailed turning their tails to me and ignoring me for a few minutes, then shaking out of it and going back to sniffing my hand and stuff.

She's good at picking up when I'm stressed, but I'm doing a lot better now worry-wise.

P.S.: in reference to her pee'ing on me just now, I really could care less that she pees on me clothes or whatever - the last week that Princess was alive I functioned as bed and as toilet as needed. My only concern is that Plumeria's okay.

I'll double-check with my boyfriend in case there were any major events or whatever.

How was she with your bf? Eating and playing normally? Maybe she's punishing you for going away? I don't know if rats do that, I've heard of dogs doing that. She could also be feeling your stress over your grandmother.

 

[ryelle]

When i moved house the first time, we moved my Harvey boy over on the afternoon after all the chaos of furnite was moved in and unpacked. A week or two later he was acting very unlike himself (we were all settled in then). he didnt want to play, didn't want to come outside, just sat in his little house. He didnt really show any signs of being ill, but i took him down to the vet anyway and just told them about his behaviour change. They checked him over and said there wasnt anything to worry about (no resp. infections or anything), but they gave him some Baytril anyways. A few days later and he was back to himself. No idea what was wrong with him. I dont think it was the stress from the move either because he was used to moving around

 

[henry's_mum]

I REALLY hope she's feeling a wee bit better this evening...
It's SO scary when something like this happens. Behavioural changes usually, IMO, mean somethings up.
A visit to the vet may be required if things don't get better ina couple days.
:sad3:
I'm REALLY hoping she comes around for you hun! Maybe a bro is needed sooner? not that i'm trying to get rid of them, i'm loving the babies, but i'm wondering if a wee one would spunk her up? Or he could just annoy the heck out of her I suppose. :giggle:

 

[M0onkist]

lol

Spunking her up or annoying her would be stimuli either way.

I'll let you know how she's doing in a couple of hours - she's sleeping right now, rather than dozing or resting (I think).

 

[jorats]

Her peeing on you is definitely a concern. Rats don't usually pee on people, they will mark but not a full pee.
I wonder if she could be starting a PT and these could be her very first symptoms. I would probably get her to a vet.

 

[M0onkist]

PT being pituitary tumor?

Dear gods, I hope not...

 

[Fidget]

Punishing you would usually be 'dissing' you. Not wanting treats and pooping & peeing when and where she didn't used to? Was she in the same cage with the same setup at your bf's? Did he notice when she started going where you know is unusual? Do her poops look normal?
Myself I'd give her 2-3 days as long as she's eating ok and not looking sick, but if refusing treats and 'going' when & where is not normal for her it wouldn't hurt if you can to take her to the vet or at least get her on a run of baytril in case she has some physiological problem. I don't believe in meds if they're not needed - but still it's not a normal thing for them to have an emotional reaction like this.
Maybe sensing your stress over your grandma, then you disappearing after Princess did caused some psychosomatic thing? I dunno. I hope all is well real soon.

 

[M0onkist]

My boyfriend and I live together in a 1 bedroom apartment, so nothing at all changed for her, except me being gone - same cage, same food, same location, same smells (although I do freely admit we humans can't smell as acutely as rats can).

Her poops do look normal - most of them utterly uniform in shape and size, maybe one smaller one (the tail end of a meal I suppose?).

Where can one get Baytril, exactly? Is it the kind of thing only gotten at the vet's?

Punishing you would usually be 'dissing' you. Not wanting treats and pooping & peeing when and where she didn't used to? Was she in the same cage with the same setup at your bf's? Did he notice when she started going where you know is unusual? Do her poops look normal?
Myself I'd give her 2-3 days as long as she's eating ok and not looking sick, but if refusing treats and 'going' when & where is not normal for her it wouldn't hurt if you can to take her to the vet or at least get her on a run of baytril in case she has some physiological problem. I don't believe in meds if they're not needed - but still it's not a normal thing for them to have an emotional reaction like this.
Maybe sensing your stress over your grandma, then you disappearing after Princess did caused some psychosomatic thing? I dunno. I hope all is well real soon.

 

[Fidget]

Yeah, unfortunately we can't just go buy it a pet shop or drug store, you have to get it from a vet, which of course requires a vet exam fee - no wonder a lot of critters don't get the help or meds they need that would be within people's abilities. :redhot: I don't know if it's the same with all vets, but what I can say about mine is that once she's seen a kid and prescribed baytril I only need to phone the vets to get a refill ever after for that kid without paying for an exam. And many will need it when they are older so might as well get that fee out of the way, get a proper exam if you don't know what's going on, and get the kid healthy. Hopefully just pay for meds after that in their life as long as it's a certainty it's something expected & recognizable that requires only meds and not an exam.

 

[ryelle]

I don't know if it's the same with all vets, but what I can say about mine is that once she's seen a kid and prescribed baytril I only need to phone the vets to get a refill ever after for that kid without paying for an exam.

Gah!! My vet's will not prescribe ANYTHING without having a consultation first :doh:

 

[Fidget]

I really appreciate that my vet has done this often. But on the flip side she has neglected to diagnose a lot of things right and so baytril is her answer to everything anyway. I've paid for many exams where I got no good answers (unless baytril cured it :roll: ). For instance, all the kids I've had to her she's never even said the word 'heart' which is so common a problem in old kids, but she did say 'meningitis' when it was more obviously a PT. So if you have a really good vet at least what you pay can benefit them if they need something other than baytril. :rant:

Sorry Moonkist, ranted there - but that brings up a good point - do you have a good experienced ratty vet? Not every vet that is good with cats & dogs has knowledge about the specialized needs of ratties. If you don't have a good one it would be good to ask here of people who live near you who they see. An exam fee sucks, but it's well worth it if it helps the kid, it's only resented if it doesn't.

 

[M0onkist]