Sid again - Update 12/05 (pg.4)

[ryelle]

Sid's skin is looking good He has hardly any scabs on his sides, and the spots on the base of his tail are getting smaller and less red. I think by the end of the weekend they will have cleared up. Im bathing the sore on his underbelly again. I was checking it last night, and i think it might turn into another abscess.

The story never ends though. I don't know if im just looking for problems, and being paranoid, but i think Sids chest sounds a little like Patrick's. He's sat on my hand while i type (the back of my hand... awkward typing lol..) , and every time he moves theres a few little grunty "whup" sound's. Any suggestions?

He is loving his scratches tonight. And hes moving around a lot, which is good. His toes look a little "dead" tonight, so im hoping some circulation might make them more use to him (they really aren't any use at all, but i don't like them getting dragged underneath his foot). He is getting a nail trim tomorrow aswell - they are growing really wierd and fast because he puts no pressure on his toes at all, so they never touch the floor to get worn down. Poor bub

 

[ryelle]

We've just got back from our second vet appointment. Sid had his second ***. I saw a different vet this week and she was quite nice. She pulled up a lot of the scruff on Sids neck when she gave him his injection, and Sid didnt move an inch. He wasn't bothered at all. His skin has been looking good the past week, and should improve more. We have an appointment in another 10 days for a follow up and another *** if he needs it.

He was more scared of getting his chest listened to (which i requested), and the vet said his lungs and his heart sound fine.

He seems to have lost weight though and im not sure if i should be concerned. I picked him up to put him in his box and he felt lighter so i thought i would put him on the scales. On 31st of March he weighed 661g and today the scales are saying 609g. A loss of 52grams over 11 days. Any advice?

 

[jorats]

That's a big weight loss... anything that could be stressing him lately? Did the vet say that he's lost muscle mass?

 

[Godmother]

So glad that Sid's skin is clearing up, but that is a big weight loss. My three oldest rats (will be 3 yo on Monday) suddenly lost a lot of weight and I now have to be vigilant about getting enough food into them. It seems like forever ago when I worried about them getting fat. I think it was mostly the loss of muscle on their back legs, but they are thinner all over. Such a big weight loss in so short a time makes me wonder if it is partly dehydration. Maybe see if he will take some liquid from a syringe for you.

sounds like your second vet is a much better bet. If you are hearing breathing sounds consistently, though, they need antibiotics. My vet told me that it is very difficult learning to judge lung sounds even with a stethoscope, so it's worth having the vet listen again.

 

[ryelle]

Ugh, Sid doesn't seem to be getting any better. He's had two Ivermectin injections and he is in for another one this week. He looks like he is clearing up one day, and then the next he is worse. He has tiny scabs ALL over him still. Some of them are lumps, and if i massage the skin then puss comes out of them - sort of like spots.
The other day he had patches all around his neck that was red raw. I sat and lightly rubbed them because there was flaking skin aswell and Sid appreciated it. He must itch like hell. Sometimes when he is really bad, i wash him down with shampoo and the redness goes away for a day. Getting bathed stressed him out sooo much (the water bit anyways, he licks my wrist while i massage his skin with the shampoo), but he looks very relieved afterwards.

Also, the scab on his belly just wont heal. It was exactly the same the other day, and i bathed it and had a feel of it. It feels like the scab goes under his skin.. if that makes sense. There seems to be nothing at all in there either (in the sense of an abscess)... and he HATES me checking it. He squirms and squeaks


Any suggestions?

 

[Joanne]

Maybe Sid squirms and squeaks when you check it because it is painful.
Do you have access to ANY vet with more experience? He obviously has something going on that is not responding to regular treatment. Have they done a skin scraping yet to look for visible signs of parasites? He could also have a bacterial infection of his skin. I would think that by now I would rule out the typical parasites that would have been eliminated by the Ivermectin, and try him on a course of antibiotics. Worst case scenario - no improvement. Best case scenario - he gets better. Everything to gain, nothing to lose (except a few $$). And a medicated shampoo to help with the itchies.

 

[Moon]

It doesn't sound like something ivermectin can take care of to me anymore either. Unfortunately skin scrapings on rats aren't 100% effective so sometimes you need to go through some trial and error with skin problems.

 

[ryelle]

The vets here either have similar experience or none at all. No skin scrapings have been suggested.. nothing has been suggested but Ivermectin shots. Am coming to a loss at the minute lol. He has had topical ivermectin and then injectable ivermectin for about 2 months now and its done nothing

ugh

Patrick has been clear of mites and scabs for 5 weeks now

 

[Moon]

I can't see how it would be mites, then.

Sounds like you need to look at a different course of treatment. I wish you had more access to a more educated rat vet, but so many of us don't. Those of us in Toronto are SO lucky to have Dr Munn

 

[jorats]

Can you ask the vet for an anti fungal shampoo? It might be worth the try.

 

[Joanne]

So most likely not a parasite infection, which leaves bacteria and/or fungi. Anything else we've forgotten?

 

[jorats]

Allergies to something perhaps? I wonder if the vet would allow you to try prednisone?
Is he getting a lot of protein?

 

[henry's_mum]

Our dog Daytona had a similar skin condition, he was itchy and in pain. It was summed up to be pyoderma. We had to use prednisone in the end to control the itching... as well as oatmeal baths, and anti-fungal shampoos to keep it from getting infected.
Skin issues are SO tough...

 

[ryelle]

WOW i forgot my appointment time and i misplaced my diary - i have short term memory loss.. seeing my Neurologist again next month.. - so i had to call up and ask them what day and time it was, and boy did that secretery nurse lady get annoyed. She immediately said "..whats the dogs name!? this is going to take me ages to sort out!" i was like ".. its actually a RAT and his name is Sidian, S-I-D-I-A-N. im sure you dont have a LOT of registered rats by that name". It only took her 2 minutes to find the appointment then she hung up.

He is back in tomorrow afternoon at 4:10. I'm going to ask them if we can start treatin him for allergies or a fungal infection. I have a feeeeeeling im going to have to take him to see the same vet as Patrick. Patrick is in this afternoon... so i might just mention it to the vet and see what he suggests...

I've checked his food, and the protein in it is 16%. The packaging says 15-20g a day, and Sid gets 18 biscuits (18g) and normally eats 16 (i've been counting since he lost that weight the other week because i thought he wasn't eating at all) sometimes less, depending on how much veggies he gets. He also gets vegetables, and some pasta, rice and noodles (he chooses that over his biscuits lol) - whichever we are having for dinner that day

Edit: He also gets Complan either in with his biscuits, or with baby cereal - but i've checked the nutritional levels and the amount he gets a day would equal less than 1g of protein (one 57g sachet equal 8.8g, and he gets around a tablespoon or less mixed with water - not milk - one sachet lasts about a week or more)

 

[jorats]

His diet sounds pretty good. I wouldn't think it's that then. I would definitely ask for prednisone, can't hurt!

 

[ryelle]

We didn't make it to the vets today. We sat at a bus stop for 45minutes and a bus didn't turn up, and there was no way i could have made it in time for the appointment if one had shown up after then. I went to my mums work place and she called the vet and apologised for me (no payphones and no phone credit on my mobile ><).

Every appointment i make there, the bus is always late or never shows. Its in a different town to me and i dont have a car or access to one

I've decided that i'm just going to call the vet that Patrick saw the past 2 weeks and get Sid in to see him. Its only 10 minutes walk instead of a forever bus ride.

 

[Joanne]

That must be very frustrating.........

 

[ryelle]

Call me crazy.................

Sid ALWAYS has a really bad Porphy nose, and he was sat looking at me the other night (probably about 4 nights ago now) with his gorgeous little red-stained face. And i thought... what the heck, it's worth a try.. so i've been giving him 0.15mls of Baytril twice a day. His nose hasn't been really that Porphy the last couple of days (i only noticed it today, and it was NO-where near as bad as it used to be).

Also...

Right Side almost 7 weeks ago:

Tonight:

Left Side almost 7 weeks ago:

Tonight:

He was worse last week, and i decided the Ivermectin shots wern't doing anything for him. I hadn't been able to get him back to the vets lately either.

I've checked him over tonight and the scabs are either off, or flaking, and have no puss under them anymore

oO

 

[jorats]

He probably had some type of infection then... are you still giving baytril? I'd continue for at least 3 to 4 weeks... especially since he's getting better.

 

[ryelle]

yea im still giving it to him. im going to have to go to the vet and try talk them in to giving me some more though, not sure how they will take that :?