Sick Still

[Kriix]

Hi All,

I am having issues with one of my ratty females..still.

She will be 2 this May, and lives with her mother and 3 sisters.

I have had her on antibiotics several times with no results. The doctor has found nothing wrong with her, and says she does not have a respitory infection. I use Dr.Generva (sp?) from Clarke Animal Hospital in London, ON.

She is very thin, has no appetite and when she does she will only eat certain things and very little of it. She has troubles keeping herself warm, is arched over, isn't grooming herself, and has the dark red discharge comming from her nose. Sometimes she is better and at a regular weight looking healthy, and at others she is in the state she is now. She constantly wants to be out of the cage with me, and dosen't spend time with her sister and mother as much as the others do.

I only use yesterday's news in their cage, she is fed extrusion rodent blocks along with pasta, rice, veggies, tofu, tuna, and watever other veggies on an occassional basis.

I have posted about her before, and many have responded saying they have the same issues but no answers. Does anybody know what is going on? I do not know what to do and do not want to have to keep paying for vet visit after vet visit and the meds not helping.

 

[Joanne]

Have you tried going to another vet for a second opinion? Sometimes someone new will think of something that the first vet didn't.

 

[Kriix]

I have used another vet in the area, but only for my guinea pigs. When I went there the vet and staff seemed more interested in selling products rather then the health of the animals so I have not returned. These are the only 2 vets in the area who I've heard of that specialize in small animal care rather then just dogs and cats.

 

[victoria]

Can you take a picture? Is she losing weight? Separating herself from her sisters? Does she seem confused or uncoordinated?

 

[Kriix]

I would post a photo, but she is currently curled up with everybody else, and if I take her out it will take forever for her to curl up with them again, and I know she needs the warmth.

She has lost weight. She is normally 8oz (1/2lb) but is now down to 6oz. Her normal range is between 7-8.5oz. I have never seen her this thin.

She isn't so much seperating herself from the others, rather is just standing off in a corner when I place her back in, nodding or slightly grooming herself, or else comming up smelling me, grabbing my fingers and asking to be let out again.

She is definately uncoordinated, and dosen't seem to be able to make up her mind what she wants to do. One minute under the pillow or blanket to stay warm, then the next just perching on my shoulder or the pillow. She is however walking normally, and can still make large jumps onto my shoulders or the platforms of their cage.

I will be taking her to the vet again later this week, but I'm so concerned. It's been going on for so long and I get used to it, but when she goes downhill even further I never know what's going to happen to her.

 

[jorats]

How long has she been this way?

 

[victoria]

Have you done the Cheerio test with her? It sounds like a neurological issue to me, possibly a pituitary tumour. She's probably loosing weight because her appetite is off or she is simply not strong or coordinated enough to eat solid foods. When you take her to the vet, suggest the possibility of a neurological issue and see if he/she agrees ask for a steroid and an antibiotic (e.g Prednisone and Batryl). it won't fix the issue but it may give her more time.

In the meantime, do your best to keep her warm, hydrated, and fed. Give her a warm, comfy spot to sleep that's easy to get into and change the bedding in it frequently. Make sure she has easy access to food and water wherever she prefers to hang out. Supplement her diet with healthy, soft foods like oatmeal, baby food and cereal, soft fruits and veggies in big enough chunks she doesn't have to hold them to eat (I used to give one of my PT girls chunks of banana, avocado, or cooked potato she could snack on if they were in front of her), Ensure, soy milk, etc. You can make your own heating pad (search around for more detailed instructions) by filling a freezer bag with rice and putting it into a cloth sack that is sewn closed and heating it up in the microwave or you can put fleece in her favourite sleeping spot (change it often) for her to snuggle into. You can help her stay clean by using unscented baby wipes on her a few times a day. Last but not least try to remove as many falling hazards as possible (for example, you can put her nesting spot on the bottom of the cage so she doesn't have to climb) and cover the ladders with something like wool socks to prevent her falling or hurting herself.

 

[Kriix]

Jo - She has had all of these symptoms for a little over a year now. Minus the discharge and the weight. Otherwise she has been the same way for the last year and never gotten worse. But this is the second time she's had discharge from her nose, very dark red, which scares me.

Victoria - Thank you for the suggestion. I will read up a bit more on it and see if it sounds like a possibility. She is able to eat solid foods, and does - rat pellets, dry pasta, carrots, etc. It just takes her longer to eat them and she takes tiny bites. She kind of looks like a fussy old lady eating, where as the others are grinding away and back for more within seconds.

I don't 100% understand what the cheerio test is, but went searching through the boards to find something. She eats hunched up, completely on her rump instead of a kind of squat, but does still eat with her hands. I will attach a couple photos so you can see what I mean - although in the photo she is eating spinach and natural peanut butter not a solid.

She does not have any issues climbing, going up stairs, perching ,etc. Her balance isn't as good as the rest, but she's not toppling around either.

I hope the vet is able to figure out what is wrong.

 

[Joanne]

Looking at the pictures:
She is definitely not sitting normally.
It may be something is affecting her balance. Does she have normal strength in her hind end?

 

[Kriix]

I don't know about normal strength, since her whole body is so thin. Although it was hard to capture in the photos. She is able to hop from my elbow to shoulder when I lay down without any difficulties, but her balance when landing is a little off, and she adjusts a lot while perching on my shoulder. However she can balance perfectly fine while running up my arm, climbing bars, climbing ladders, walking across window ledges etc.

 

[Kriix]

Also, just did a read-up on pituitory tumours, and the descriptions and symptoms don't really seem to match the way she is acting. It would be much easier if I could just post a video of her so you could know exactly what I mean, but I'm not even with her at the moment so I can't. Really really hoping I can get her into the vets by tomorrow.

 

[victoria]

A year is a long time to have a pituitary tumour growing. How old is she again? Did the symptoms start all of a sudden? Her posture makes me think there is a neurological issue though. Could she have had a stroke or suffered a head injury?

 

[Kriix]

She will be 2 on May 1st, so right now would be about 20-21 months.

Oh god, can't remember how it started. I know it began a while ago, so now is just a regular thing for her. I realized she had lost weight, thought she was sick, started hand feeding, didn't get better didn't get worse. Finally got up enough money to take her to the vet, doc said there was nothing wrong, prescribed Baytril. She ate it the first couple days then wanted nothing to do with it. Saw a small improvement then right back to usual. Got prescribed Baytril again. Did nothing, but she took it. I went away for 7 weeks at that point so not sure how she was, but didn't help and she was in the same state when I got back. A week later she had the discharge from her nose, very lethargic and hid under the bed and took me 2 hours to reach her. Usually she is perched on my shoulder or pillow. It's been a couple months since then and she seems to be going there again.

I would have no idea if she had a stroke, how would you know? Around the time it started she was about 8 mths at the most, so I don't know what the normal age range is for that. I have no idea about a head injury either, I don't know how that would occur?

 

[victoria]

8 months old is really young for a stroke, head injuries can occur from even freak accidents even inside the cage but are uncommon. I don't know what to tell you, what you're describing sounds like a neurological issue to me. Beyond that I'm not sure I'll wait for someone with more experience to weigh in.

 

[Kriix]

Just read this: http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_white ... ogical.htm about neurological disorders in rats, specifically strokes and inner eat disease, and it still dosen't sound much like her. It's closer then the tumors but not enough that i'd say it's possible she has it. I have no idea!

 

[jorats]

What does the vet think? He thinks the rat is ok/normal?
I wonder if trying prednisone might help?

 

[lilspaz68]

Has anyone checked her teeth? Teeth issues can cause a multitude of problems including weight loss, etc

 

[Kriix]

Jo - The Vet said she seemed perfectly normal, even though she was still under weight and making noices. She wasn't terribly thin, had smooth clean coat, good heart, clear lungs, teeth looked fine etc.m but this was when she wasn't in a state like she is now.

Lilspaz - I had been wondering if that might be a possibility as well. However, it hasn't been easy to get a hold of one of the healthy rats and her to see if the teeth are the same. So far she has been eating the lab blocks, so I'd like to think they are fine, but won't know until I get to the vet.

Unfortunately the very earliest I will be able to get her in is 4pm tomorrow, assuming I can find a ride. And Dr. Genera is away, so we'll be dealing with a whole new vet who'll have to get caught up and hopefully she'll have some answers.

 

[Kriix]

Ah, and just read in a post that rats brux and grind down their teeth. I was wondering what she was doing lol. At least that part of her is normal, and she is still doing that.

 

[Kriix]

I would just like to thank everybody for their suggestions and concerns, unfortunately Kona passed away sometime overnight/early this morning after dealing with this for over a year.

I would like to have her cremated with her sisters and mother once their time comes. Is there any reason I should not keep her frozen until then?

R.I.P. Kona ♥ May 1st, 2009-February 14th, 2011