Ruthie

[jorats]

I wish I could tell you more but my vet doesn't even recommend treating heart failure in rats. She says it only prolongs their pain and there's no cure, only minimal treatment that doesn't really seem work.

 

[mamarat]

Thinking of you and your poor sweetie. :hugs:

 

[lilspaz68]

I wish I could tell you more but my vet doesn't even recommend treating heart failure in rats. She says it only prolongs their pain and there's no cure, only minimal treatment that doesn't really seem work.

I am glad Dr Munn agrees to try to treat this. Some rats respond and maintain with a bit of help for their heart, as long as the damage isn't too severe, or there is a congenital defect that you just won't be able to help. You can only try.

Guineapigs can live a long long time on heart meds, I do know that

 

[Godmother]

I've had three now on heart meds. They all got several more good months. Rhonda benefitted the least because she was older and in worse shape when diagnosed. I wish I had treated Melissa more aggressively. I was cautious then, and I think the whole package of meds (she got Benazepril and Lasix, but didn't get Atenolol or Digoxin) might have eased the strain on her heart. Her heart packed it in quite suddenly at the end.

Georgie has her ups and downs, and she is getting very thin, but she is lively most of the time. It has been worthwhile giving her the meds overall.

Poor little Deb really has been affected badly. I hope that you will be able to get some liquid into her.

 

[SQ]

Just returned from the vets.
Ruthie is dead

 

[jorats]

I'm so sorry Holly. :sad3:

 

[Dahlas]

Oh I am so sorry .........

 

[Joanne]

Sorry about Ruthie.......these little guys just don't seem to live very long. Hard on the heart but I'm sure she enjoyed being with you for her little life.

 

[mamarat]

I'm so sorry. :hugs:

 

[lilspaz68]

Poor Ruthie, her heart plumb wore out. :sad3:

I am sorry Holly. :cuddle:

 

[Godmother]

I am so sorry. Sweet little Ruthie had such a short life.

I hope that you will remember how much fun she packed into her life, though. Little Miss Escapee had some adventures in your apartment, tasted some delicious computer and phone cords, did some carving on your couch.

 

[morats]

I'm so sorry :sad3:

 

[lilspaz68]

Holly I got an answer from Karen of ratguide, I know it won't help you now, but maybe in the future or maybe with other people's CHF rats?

CHF or as now termed just Heart Failure (HF) can be brought about several different factors. Left sided heart failure causes the heart not to be able to pump oxygen rich blood efficiently to the body and results in fluid backing up into the lungs. Right sided heart failure result in blood backing up into other areas and organs of the body causing congestion in the GI tract, liver, etc. It is the right sided heart failure where you see swelling from edema. Heart failure is rather an end sign to other disease processes that are going on. Among those are long term lung disease, and cardiomyopathy (abnormal weakening and thickening of heart muscle which results in enlargement) to name a couple. Abnormal arrhythmias (heart beats) and kidney failure can result in CHF as well.

An excellent diagnostic tool (in rats) for determining heart failure (CHF) is the use of lasix (a diuretic...makes one pee a lot). It is fast acting and can tell one if there is a need to start adding additional drugs used for heart failure and cardiomyopathy. Such as the ACE inhibitors like enalapril which help dilate blood vessels and decrease work load of the heart , beta-blockers like atenolol are useful when there is coronary artery disease (rare in rats), Digoxin is an inotropic useful in getting the heart to slow down and beat more forcefully to help keep blood from backing up into the lungs.

In heart failure, right or left sided, lasix, digoxin, and an ACE inhibitor would be the most effective agents.

Cardiomyopathy itself has different types: In hypertrophic cardiomyopathy the heart muscle becomes thickened. It becomes harder and harder for the blood to be pumped out of the heart.
Effective meds are beta-blockers like atenolol and calcium channel blockers like cardizem.
In dilated cardiomyopathy the heart muscle becomes weakened and enlarges. A hypertrophic heart can lead to dilated cardiomyopathy as well.
Dilated cardiomyopathy is treated much the same way as CHF.

These conditions are progressive, and most often in rats are the result of other equally debilitating disease processes. Increasing the amount of digoxin will not change this and can even hasten the rat's death. As Joyce indicated it does not take much of the drug to cause toxicity.

If the vet was able to determine that the heart was significantly enlarged and that the trachea was deviated then the rat most probably has , at this point, left sided heart failure with dilated cardiomyopathy.

The drugs would be Digoxin, Enalapril or similiar, Lasix, and the rat should be given oxygen. The rat's oxygen concentration is no doubt low and will not be able to sustain for very long.

As to the loss of potassium from the drugs, in rats it helps to feed foods higher in potassium. A biggy is bananas. If your rat will eat them, or in baby foods.

Rats with heart failure and cardiomyopathy that are have heart arrhythmias and oxygen depletion do not eat well. They lose weight quickly. They are striving to hard just to breathe.

I also found a great site for potassium rich foods
http://www.algaecal.com/potassium-rich-foods.html

 

[Godmother]

Thanks so much, Shelagh, for getting this valuable info. Maybe you should sticky it in a separate thread?

I am sorry that it couldn't help Ruthie, but it may well help other rats in future.

BTW, in the list of potassium-rich foods, I noticed that potatoes and lima beans were high. Those are ratty favourites around here.

 

[SQ]

Thanks for the info.
I was not aware of the different types of heart problems.
A sticky would be a good idea.

Pretty much sounds like what I was/am doing for Ruthie (Debbie, and Marsha) for the last few months. They all have hugely enlarged hearts. As did Caleb, Ralphie, and Burrell.

I usually pick up bananas for the rats three times a week or so.
In the future I will make it a practice to fed more potassium rich foods just in case

 

[Moon]

I'm so sorry Holly. Sounds like you tried really hard to fight it off, but Ruthie just couldn't fight with you anymore.