Rat Psych 101: Dealing with a depressed singleton

[jorats]

This is sounding to me like the girls are being typical crazy girls and Greg is not wanting any part of it. Hunkering down and squinting is him not wanting to get jumped on even through play. He's being a grump.
Sitting in the corner... He's saying he'd rather go home. And he's not comfortable without access to his cage.
When did his cage buddy pass? It almost feels like he's grieving still.

If these were my rats, I'd keep at it. I would move the girls each time they start to huff and puff near Greg, to let them know they can't play with him that way.
How old are these girls?

 

[Moon]

The only rat Gregory has ever gotten along well with was Quilt, his original cagemate. He tolerated Dominic (RIP) but had some difficult intros as he just does not seem to understand how rats behave. If someone grooms him he freaks out and goes defensive. If someone shoves under him in the "groom me now!" way he freezes until they walk away. If rats could be autistic....

Don't be so sure he's not, or doesn't have some sort of personality disorder. In wolf and dog studies there's more and more consideration that they may sometimes suffer from disorders like being bipolar, and I don't see any reason why some rats can't be that way.

I too think he's still grieving, and that you should keep at it. Maybe shorter intros for now, keep easing him into it?

 

[MomRat]

This is sounding to me like the girls are being typical crazy girls and Greg is not wanting any part of it. Hunkering down and squinting is him not wanting to get jumped on even through play. He's being a grump.
Sitting in the corner... He's saying he'd rather go home. And he's not comfortable without access to his cage.
When did his cage buddy pass? It almost feels like he's grieving still.

If these were my rats, I'd keep at it. I would move the girls each time they start to huff and puff near Greg, to let them know they can't play with him that way.
How old are these girls?

Typical crazy girls, who are themselves having a shift of alpha power - its been clear since they got here Jan. 24th that Nimmel is the biggest and the boss, and just within the past few days little Jayden is challenging that - she's been pinning Nimmel in the cage and grooming her, and she peed on Gregory's face 4 times during bathtub intros tonight.

Gregory would generally always prefer to be in his cage, during his out times, even when the other boys were alive, he would mostly just curl up under a blanket and sleep. Unfortunately, if we give him access to his cage during out time, it isn't out time. He just stays/goes back in his cage.

Quilt(who was his original cage mate, from the home where we Craigslist rescued them) passed away around January 19th. Dominic was PTS on February 9.

We're guessing the girls are coming up on 7 months, but that's based on the estimate at the rescue. Gregory is neutered and all the girls are spayed.

 

[jorats]

If someone grooms him he freaks out and goes defensive. If someone shoves under him in the "groom me now!" way he freezes until they walk away. If rats could be autistic....

This is a typical behaviour of 80% of males. Not autistic at all but a big macho male. When a rat goes to put his head under another rat, he's asking to be groomed thus recognizing that rat as dominate. A macho male will not groom, he will stop and wait. Some rats if not getting his grooming when placing his head under the rat could then go into an attack mode because he's not getting the respect he's asking for. Very normal and all part of the dominance dance.

MomRat... you have a combination of circumstances that is all making things hard for Gregory right now. First, the multiple losses, not too long ago, then the girls being 7 months old! they are all coming into age and can be quite the bullies themselves and lastly, his lack of interest in out time.
So... the only thing you can do is keep at it and don't feel too sad for Greg. He feels your energy. Get the girls playing hard, rub their heads, make them popcorn, the more they laugh the more Greg will come out of his shell.

 

[mamarat]

My Thomas was like your Gregory. He would stay in his cage while his two brothers came out and had fun. After the two brothers passed I introed him to 3 unspayed girls and at first he was giving me the puppy look. But he got used to the babies curling on top of him and beside him. They were then introed to a neutered male and 3 other older ladies. It worked like a charm. Now all 8 are found in ratpiles and Mr. Thomas is never alone anymore. Good luck with your sweetie.

 

[jorats]

I'd also like to add regarding Thomas, those three brothers were impossible to intro to any other rats. They were aggressive and scared of any others. We were quite worried about Thomas when his two brothers passed away, not sure how he would take to new rats since he's been known to be a real bada$$ in the past with others.

 

[MomRat]

Get the girls playing hard, rub their heads, make them popcorn, the more they laugh the more Greg will come out of his shell.

How do you 'make' girls popcorn? lol

On a happy note, Gregory sought out the girls a total of 3 times tonight. They were all asleep in a pile, and he broke out of the safety of cuddling with Dadrat to shuffle to the girls, stick his head in the pile for a few seconds, and then shuffle back to the safety of Dad. Progress, albeit slowly. =)

 

[crumbilina]

Oh intros, I hate them so much!

I don't have much experience with intros, so I don't have a whole lot I can add, just some personal experience. It does sound like you just have a very slow intro on your hands. If you give him time, I'm sure he can adapt to the girlies and you can have a happy colony.

I have one big mistake that you dont want to make. When my Cocoa was left alone, I tried so hard to get her to like other rats and live with other rats. When I tried the intros, following the instructions on this forum very closely (but stupidly never posting anything), there was constant, intentional injuries. It was Cocoa always attacking other rats to the point where I was scared that she was going to fatally injure one. I quit. Although Cocoa was never depressed like your boy was, I still regret quitting the intros. She lived for a full year and a month alone and although I was there for her many hours in the day and she seemed happy, she never had that rattie companionship that I knew she MUST be missing. I can't help but think that if I took it slow, began with 15 minute intros in the bathtub for a week, then progressed to 30 minutes for a week etc, etc, slooooooowly that she could have had the rattie friends that I know deep down she wanted.

Basically what I am saying is that it may take you a while, but eventually he will be happy. Don't make the same mistake I did with Cocoa. Don't quit trying.

Also, whoever said that they can sense your feelings is right. If you can make your voice excited and feel happy and play with your girls, you can convey that feeling of excited happiness to them. Hopefully your boy can pick up on that and take part. If not he will watch/listen and when he is ready he'll come in too.

Take your time, you can do this! Plus you have some great people helping you above!

 

[jorats]

For creating happy popcorning rats, rub their heads real fast. It should send them off jumping around like popping popcorn. I do it here in the beginning of my video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoSrrPIaoMM

 

[mamarat]

That's good that Gregory visits the girls on his own. One day he'll just crawl in with them. It's progress!

 

[lizmo1221]

For creating happy popcorning rats, rub their heads real fast. It should send them off jumping around like popping popcorn. I do it here in the beginning of my video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoSrrPIaoMM

With my young ones all i do is run my hand quickly down their back the wrong way (from butt to head). It sends them into a frenzy!! They run everywhere and tackle each other. Cola will even have mini spaz attacks on the spot. Its hilarious!

 

[Joanne]

That's excellent news that Greg sought out the girls on his own! Slow and steady wins the race........

 

[MomRat]

So, part of me is scared to screw up what's going on slowly, but part of me hates to see Gregory sleeping alone. I think we're going to try opening up the cage today after a thorough clean... maybe them having the Whole CN instead of being piled together in half of it will help? Fingers crossed that we're not rushing it again. No fights for the last three days in out time. Pics from last night...

Gregory's idea of a 30 second cuddle:

"No cuddling here, just us Girlies..."

But the rear view:

 

[jorats]

Oh god... that rear view says it all. Sending lots and lots of love to Gregory.
Go for it MomRat! Keeping my fingers crossed for the group.

 

[crumbilina]

bawwwwwww
That's so heart warming!

 

[DadRat]

Well, the cage is completely changed and opened up so everyone has access to both levels. The girls think this is the best thing ever. Greg is hiding in a pocket hammock. He and Nimmel had a short parent separating spat over a cube hammock they both wanted into (which is really big enough for our entire little rat pack) after that Greg retreated to a hammock, and got his head peed on by Jayden (again) en route there.

Keeping an eye on the crazy fuzzballs.

 

[Godmother]

Good luck!! That is such a cute picture of him with a tail draped over him :heart:

 

[Joanne]

Yay! Go Greg!

 

[DadRat]

Intro fail. Again.

Jayden got in a fight with Greg that left Greg with a deep puncture wound the the back of the neck/upper shoulder area. Nasty looking bite, and Greg is very stressed at the moment. Don't think Jayden is injured, but she is 7 months old and a spaz, so I'll have to wait until she calms down a bit to look her over good.

Back to separate cages again. Wondering if Greg is going to end up a loner after all.

 

[Kimber]

awww, sorry to hear there has been another nasty scuffle Does Gregory ever start them/hurt the others?

btw, love the pic of him bum cuddling with the girls, lol