Quite urgent? Virus. :(

[Rachael]

I will try keep this quite short.

4 days ago Wendy became sick. She was listless, unresponsive, and couldn't keep herself warm at all. The colour in her feet and tail was completely gone, she was so pale. Managed to syringe her fluids and got her to take medicine, and she got injections at the vets.

The next night, another girl who Wendy had lived with showed similiar symptoms... really pale and cold, and struggling to breath. She died within a few hours at home, she'd been fine that day, eating and active, then it just hit her and she was gone.
I stayed up and watched all of the ratties last night, went to sleep for 2 hours and got up and now Bramble is gone. Her feet look quite white too and this was completely out of the blue. She has also been eating, and was out running around playing last night.

My question is we had a cage of 11 girls, and all 3 girls that have died so far have been from that cage. We are wondering is it worth taking them out of that cage and moving them to another room, or is that completely pointless? We would have to do the same with a group of 9 boys who live in the same cage (FN kind of cage, split in half) as they have poked their noses through and sniffed at the girls mouths. I know it's usually not worth splitting them from the main room like that, but all 3 girls were from the same cage. Complete nightmare.

 

[lilspaz68]

I will try keep this quite short.

4 days ago Wendy became sick. She was listless, unresponsive, and couldn't keep herself warm at all. The colour in her feet and tail was completely gone, she was so pale. Managed to syringe her fluids and got her to take medicine, and she got injections at the vets.

The next night, another girl who Wendy had lived with showed similiar symptoms... really pale and cold, and struggling to breath. She died within a few hours at home, she'd been fine that day, eating and active, then it just hit her and she was gone.
I stayed up and watched all of the ratties last night, went to sleep for 2 hours and got up and now Bramble is gone. Her feet look quite white too and this was completely out of the blue. She has also been eating, and was out running around playing last night.

My question is we had a cage of 11 girls, and all 3 girls that have died so far have been from that cage. We are wondering is it worth taking them out of that cage and moving them to another room, or is that completely pointless? We would have to do the same with a group of 9 boys who live in the same cage (FN kind of cage, split in half) as they have poked their noses through and sniffed at the girls mouths. I know it's usually not worth splitting them from the main room like that, but all 3 girls were from the same cage. Complete nightmare.

Sounds like that damn Sendai virus to me No point separating, they have all been in the same air space...you need to have abs on hand and start medicating ANY that seem off...and even then as you find out, they can sicken and go very very quickly.

I am sorry Rachael. :sad3:

 

[crumbilina]

Oh man, another virus "outbreak"???

I have no advice to offer, since I really have never dealt with it, but listen to lilspaz or Chelle. They both have been through that dreaded thing.

Good luck! Best wishes and very sorry about your sudden losses! :hugs:

 

[Rachael]

I thought Sendai too. Do we medicate all of them or just if they show any symptoms? With Izzie and Bramble there has been no time to medicate at all, it's been so fast. Thank you both.

 

[Rachael]

I'm aware guinea pigs can also get Sendai, but coiuld it pass from rats to guinea pigs?

I really, really hope not as we have 8 guinea pigs in the same room.

 

[lilspaz68]

I'm aware guinea pigs can also get Sendai, but coiuld it pass from rats to guinea pigs?

I really, really hope not as we have 8 guinea pigs in the same room.

yes. :undecided:

 

[PitLuvs]

Oh no, I really do hope it was something everyone might have gotten into and not a virus. I am so sorry for your sudden loss of so many. Heartbreaking hun. Praying for your critters

 

[Kimber]

How are the rest of your crew doing?

 

[Willk24]

I'm so sorry for your losses. I hope the rest of your ratties and piggies will be all right. Yunie and I are sending positive thoughts your way.

 

[Rachael]

What medicine should we use if we have to medicate any? Steroids, Baytril?

Thank you for all of the replies everyone, I really appreciate it..... really not what I was wanting to hear about the guinea pigs

 

[lilspaz68]

What medicine should we use if we have to medicate any? Steroids, Baytril?

Thank you for all of the replies everyone, I really appreciate it..... really not what I was wanting to hear about the guinea pigs

baytril and doxy for sure, keep steroids on hand for any rats that are having issues getting air into their lungs.

 

[Rachael]

Sadly our vet doesn't use Doxycyline. Is amoxicillin any good for something like this? It has helped several of ours with respiratory problems before.

We've started 8 girls on Baytril, they all had really close contact with Wendy and there's a few of them that seem really quiet.

Thanks again.

 

[lilspaz68]

Sadly our vet doesn't use Doxycyline. Is amoxicillin any good for something like this? It has helped several of ours with respiratory problems before.

We've started 8 girls on Baytril, they all had really close contact with Wendy and there's a few of them that seem really quiet.

Thanks again.

use the amoxy in conjunction with the baytril. Do I dare ask why no doxy?

 

[Rachael]

Sadly our vet doesn't use Doxycyline. Is amoxicillin any good for something like this? It has helped several of ours with respiratory problems before.

We've started 8 girls on Baytril, they all had really close contact with Wendy and there's a few of them that seem really quiet.

Thanks again.

use the amoxy in conjunction with the baytril. Do I dare ask why no doxy?

Okay, we'll do that.

My vet has problems ordering it, because the company have told them they shouldn't be giving it rats, and some vets at the practise have said they prefer Baytril over Doxy. :stickpoke:

 

[Rachael]

I think we are losing Maggie. She is hunched up, struggling to breath. Medicines aren't helping her.

 

[Joanne]

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you are going through this. How horrible for you and your babies.
If I were you I would start every single one of them on medication as they seem to go so quickly.
How much that will help is questionable as the antibiotics will only help with secondary infections and not the virus.
Our prayers are with you.

 

[lilspaz68]

I think we are losing Maggie. She is hunched up, struggling to breath. Medicines aren't helping her.

I am so very very sorry...what do you have on hand right now?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

How much that will help is questionable as the antibiotics will only help with secondary infections and not the virus.

The virus isn't what kills them it's the secondary infections therefore treating the secondary infection will be what saves the rats.

 

[xxchelle]

When I went through SV, I met with the head virologist at the university here and got some very valuable information on Sendai. I'll quote some of the information she gave me that I think might be relevant/helpful to you, and if you need more information feel free to PM me.

Viral Timeline
- after the animal is infected, by the time clinical signs are seen, that’s the peak of infection
- virus begins to shed PRIOR to clinical signs
- by the time you see clinical signs, the virus has already done all the damage it is going to do, and the clinical signs are a result of tissue damage due to virus replication
- as the virus replicates, there are no antibodies in the system yet
- you want to diagnose very early, as soon as you start to see clinical signs
- as clinical signs fade, the virus is gone
- the best time to test for antibodies is right as clinical signs begin to fade
- as the virus replicates it’s killing certain cells (in the case of SV, respiratory tract damage is done), and leaves the immune system weak and open to secondary infections

Pattern of Infection
- can equate it to humans → older ones, immunocompromised ones will get sick first/worse
- because we don’t know the background of the animals, we have no way of predicting who will get hit the worst
- infects hamsters, mice, guinea pigs, but NOT other animals
- if it infects a younger rat they might have reduced weight gain temporarily, but will be compensated after the virus leaves
- antibodies will be present for the rest of their lives → survivors will be well protected
- even rats with severe secondary infections who survive will recover well and lung scarring can be minimal

Antibiotics
- antibiotics will do NOTHING for SV itself, only help secondary bacterial infections
- have to be careful if bacteria strain is resistant to certain antibiotics
- if the infection is too great, the host might not respond to the antibiotics

Preventing the Spread
- wear gloves when handling sick animals
- change clothes
- start with healthy animals then move to sick animals
- specific shoes for sick animal room
- remember to clean things like glasses, rings, necklaces, etc. (they’re colder than body temp and therefore the virus could live on them longer)
- detergent/soap DOES kill the virus, as well as long exposure to UV rays
- SV is a virus with a lipid envelope, and dissolving the lipid envelope kills the virus
- after symptoms stop, a 2 week QT is sufficient
- occasional sneeze or mild URI after the virus has worked it’s way through is likely UNRELATED to the virus

 

[Joanne]

How much that will help is questionable as the antibiotics will only help with secondary infections and not the virus.

The virus isn't what kills them it's the secondary infections therefore treating the secondary infection will be what saves the rats.

Oh! OK, in that case, definitely dose them all!!!! ASAP!