Question About Biting... Aggressive or not? Update: 4/18/13

[GrayLightNewDay]

Navi (my oldest girl) has a problem where she likes to bite Calista, and now she has started doing it to the babies. If they walk by her, she will bite their tail, if a leg is near her, she will bite it, if anyone comes up to sniff her she will bite their face or tug on their ears. It is not very hard, and she doesn't lunge at all... it's hard to explain, because to me it doesn't look aggressive at all, even though she is biting. There are never any marks left over, and definitely no blood.
I never saw it as a problem when she did it to Calista, but my boyfriend feels like the babies hate it and are scared and he said it's like emotional torture for them.
Any thoughts? Has anyone else experienced something like this? Is she being aggressive and are the babies really being tortured, or is my boyfriend just a paranoid rat daddy?

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

No one has experienced this?

 

[dspch911]

No not with the biting, but I do understand the feeling that the babies are being tortured. I feel that way too sometimes when we have the 12 out for intros. The little guys often seem terrified when a big guy comes around and runs and hides and/or runs to daddy for "saving", but I figure its just part of the process that they have to go through, but I have wondered if I'm torturing them making them socialize with the older boys when I can tell some of them are scared of them. My little boys though do grab each other in there mouths when they go at it, but haven't seen any blood yet.

 

[mamarat]

My Evie was like that to all newcomers but eventually stopped. She wasn't hurting them but I did keep an eye on her.

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

I definitely keep an eye on Navi. I just don't understand what she is doing. I wasn't sure if it was normal or not for them to just walk up to another rat and nom their face real quick. :shock:

 

[Ace8670]

When I was doing intros with my two younger brothers and Bobo it actually wasn't Bobo biting or anything it was one of the brothers Marco would always go up to Bobo and nip his face Bobo would just close his eyes as Marco did this and eventually turn around and face his rump at Marco and Marco would wander off, but Bobo was twice the size as both the brothers. I would keep an eye on her but are the babies going up to her on their own? Or is it her following them all around the cage?

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

The babies and Calista follow Navi around and try to get her to play, and then they will close their eyes and put their faces up to Navi and that is when she will just chomp on their face or ears... and then when they walk away she will chomp them the same way on the bum or tail, but she doesn't chase them. After she does it to Calista, Calista will usually start grooming Navi a lot and Navi will make cute little squeaking noises and close her eyes.
I think it sounds like what Marco was doing. I wonder what it means to them, when they do that.

 

[Ace8670]

I think it's her way of saying I'm alpha, respect me if they are following her around I wouldn't worry about it being torture tho with Marco it didn't happen outside of intros but believe me if the babies were opposed to such behavior you'd know it. But I'm not sure what it means Jorats might know more shes really good on behavior

 

[jorats]

Ya, I've had one or two do is and it's very frustrating because its near impossible to stop them. If it becomes quite obvious that the babies are stressed due to the biting, you could always try the punishment cage.

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

I didn't see your response to this until now, jorats. What is the punishment cage? I haven't heard of that before.

 

[GrayLightNewDay]

I tried the punishment cage as jorats suggested and it was very successful! The first day I had to put Navi in time out around 10 times. She kept nipping the babies and when they would run away, she would chase them and nip at their bums. I would put her in time out for 5-10 minutes, and then return her to the cage. The second day I had to put her in time out 6 times, the day after that it was only 4 times. By the fourth, fifth, and sixth day, I only had to put her in time out 2-3 times. After about a week of using the time out cage, I haven't had to use it at all.

Now, Calista is the big boss in the cage! But she is a much kinder boss than Navi was, haha. All four of them snuggle, and Navi will even snuggle with the babies without Calista. It makes me so happy to have all four of them living together and being nice to each other. :joy:

 

[M0onkist]

That's absolutely fantastic news! Obviously Navi 'got it' that this wasn't something acceptable to you.

It's amazing how the power dynamics of every cage work out - I remember with Mr. Honeycomb and Chance, Mr. H. got irritable and hormonal and had Chance cowering in a corner of the cage for the first couple of months. Obviously, there was a surgical intervention for that Afterwards, Mr. H. became the most submissive rat I'd ever seen, and he was absolutely miserable when Chance died and left him leaderless. Then I got my Pips, and the first thing Petrie (the alpha of the three baby girls) did upon meeting him was plant her paws right on the top of his head, and he melted into a puddle of goo - and she was only 1/4 his size!

Calista sounds like she's a much calmer leader, which can only be a good thing for all your babies. I think Navi will realize too that there are perks to not having to stress herself out being bossy all the time - like extra cuddles!

 

[dspch911]

:dance: :joy: :thumbup: :dance: :joy: :thumbup: :dance: :joy: :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

That is great news! But what really did it is that you were consistent each time. Awesome!