Pyoderma - 9/26 Update

[user 2700]

Warning, unspoilered photos later in thread.

Images spoilered for those with weak stomachs. The first three photos are taken with a cell phone, last two are with a camera that shows the color much better. She is active so it's hard to get decent photos.
[spoiler:3nakv7p3]

[/spoiler:3nakv7p3]

There is the one large raw area but there are multiple smaller scabs over her shoulders and down her upper arms. Previous owner stated it has been going on for three months, possibly longer. Previous owner "treated" by weekly bathes and a neosporin equivalent. I have already treated for mites. I have every intent to get her into a vet asap, in the mean time I'd love to hear what anyone thinks could be going on.

 

[rhapsody]

I was under the assumption that mite-related fur loss was from over scratching. Can she even reach that area?

Owowowow ....

 

[user 2700]

I was under the assumption that mite-related fur loss was from over scratching. Can she even reach that area?

Owowowow ....

When I first heard about her I assumed it was mites as well. However after seeing the severity I'm not going to mess around with it. I'm not sure if she can reach herself there or not. I have yet to see her itch at all or groom the area. (Nor have I seen the other rat near her / the wound.)

I also went ahead and got some children's Ibuprofen into her since there is no way her back isn't causing her pain. (I apologize for the scattered thoughts, it's been a long last few days.)

 

[hopefloats]

Is it a sore on her back or ripped open skin? Was nything put on her and did it start out slow and grow large or just ppear?

 

[user 2700]

Is it a sore on her back or ripped open skin? Was nything put on her and did it start out slow and grow large or just ppear?

It looks like a sore to me, more photos have been added to the first post. She has other small scabs that do no look like sets of bite marks. Previous owner bathed her weekly (don't know with what) then would apply neosporin to it. Previous owner didn't say how it started or if it grew, I can ask though. (I don't count on an accurate answer though, sounds like this girl was rarely handled or observed.

And yes, she can reach that area and has now itched and groomed it.

Edit: Email sent off asking about the size of the sore when she first noticed it.

 

[jorats]

Wowza... I'd say pyoderma. She needs baytril for sure. And to be treated for mites, just in case.

 

[user 2700]

Judging from information I found about pyoderma (including some of lilspaz's posts on another forum) it looks like that may be the likely culprit. Thanks jorats! I'll make sure to keep you guys updated. (I'll be calling the vet when they open on Monday.)

Also she has already been treated for mites. Anytime I bring in new rats they get a dose of Revolution. My current rats (and cat) are all treated on a regular schedule since I do lots of volunteer shelter work and would hate to bring home external parasites.

 

[temblabamomo]

Poor baby. I saw a similar reaction to revolution being applied way too often, but a much smaller scale. I hope this little one can be feeling better soon. Soothing kisses being sent.

 

[Joanne]

Owie! My guess would be pyoderma too.
Any way for the vet to get a biopsy and send it off to the lab for a culture and sensitivity testing? That way you would find out the best antibiotic to treat it with. It seems as though sometimes these things can be quite resistant to the usual antibiotics.
I think pain killers is a great idea.

 

[user 2700]

Joanne I don't know if the vet I'll use for this will do it but I'll ask and see. Sounds like they both having URIs so the girl with the sores will be on a combo in the beginning.

She isn't a fan of the syringe for meds, but is pretty happy to lick it up off of a spoon. I think she can find the spoon easier then the end of the syringe.

I heard back from the previous owner about the start of her sores.
"When I first noticed it, the big patch was probably about half the size of what it is now, and she didn't have as many sores on her shoulders. I think she only had about three patches on her left shoulder and maybe one small one on her right shoulder. She also had a tiny sore on her right ear, but that seems to have cleared up. I hadn't handled her for something like 3 or four weeks when I first noticed it."
That says to me that this has likely been going on for 4-5 months, for a month or possibly longer before she noticed it and then three months when she did know of it. Poor girl.

Is it Monday yet? Can't wait to get her on the track to health.

 

[lilspaz68]

Classic pyoderma. You can see the red angry streaks in the skin...poor love.

Baytril, and metacam for sure. Baytril will kill the active infection, metacam will hopefully stop her from scratching herself raw from pain/itchies and allowing the healing. It looks more like a surface pyoderma like Faith had. You will know the baytril is working once the angry reddish pink subsides...

Its a LONG term treatment and it can be difficult balancing the metacam...she might need a bit more one day than another...I saw this with Selene and with Faith. I think Faith hurt a lot more as well because the nerves of the skin were involved as hers was surface pyoderma, rather than Selene's deep pyoderma.

If you haven't seen it...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13006&hilit=faith+pyoderma

Angry

4 days later

even better (7 more days) I am also using fuciderm ointment at this time since the drying skin pulls and itches

 

[M0onkist]

Poor, poor love!!

I hope your vet steps up to help you with this - she deserves a nice healthy coat back there, not raw skin! And it's so nice that you took her in - she must know she's in good hands now.

 

[user 2700]

Lilspaz, just baytril for the infection? Even with a URI going? (I don't think I mentioned it in this thread but after spending time with them it sounds like they both have URIs.)

M0onkist, my vet has done a good job in the past, though it's always been URIs with this one. If she doesn't step up then my money and I will be walking out and I'll go somewhere else.

We'll be going in tomorrow afternoon, it's the soonest we could get in since she is urgent but not an emergency.

 

[M0onkist]

If there's a URI then I imagine some combination of baytril/doxy would be best (that's what Dr. Munn always starts them on, in any event). The Baytril would just be working to two ends. Definitely keep up the pain meds I would imagine - I think metacam also relieves itching to a certain extent, which would hopefully inhibit her from scratching her wounds more raw than they are now, the poor love.

I have to say, having the Rat Shack is such a great thing for these kinds of illnesses - at the very least you get a baseline for what a good treatment *should* look like. I never would have known how bad my not-Dr.-Munn vet was unless I'd found the Shack - never would have thought I could *find* a better level of treatment.

Give her a yummy treat for me?

 

[user 2700]

Thank you everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it.

M0onkist you're right, it's very nice having this forum. For any questions, just post and someone knowledgeable is there to help. Who could ask for more?

Miss Q says thanks for the blueberry puff.

 

[user 2700]

We're back with Metacam and Baytril. Vet wants to start her on just Baytril for now but will happily start her on a combo if I don't see improvement by Thursday...so I'll be going back for the combo. Got some Vitamin E oil for her skin, to help keep it from drying and pulling so much as well as Vitim in E's healing properties and because it's not going to harm her if she ingests it. Q took her meds like a champ. (Her sister with the bad URI, not so much.)

Right now they both have free run of their cage and my bed, and they're starting to really enjoy it.

Oh by the way, it's not just me who thinks they are tiny. The vet thought so too. As it turns out they weigh less then 400 grams...combined. Q weighs ~200 grams and her sister weighs ~170 grams.

I got a video of her running shortly before we went to the vet. You can see how uncomfortable she is, poor darling. (She has metacam now and is much more comfortable, the Ibuprofen just wasn't cutting it.) You can also hear her sister terrible breathing. Sorry the video is so short and a bit shaky, Q's sister was "helping".

 

[Joanne]

Wow, they are really small! Are they skinny?
She does look very uncomfortable running. I'm glad the metacam is helping.
I really hope she can kick this infection and enjoy a pain-free life for a while!

 

[mamarat]

Poor baby, hope the meds help her soon. Glad the Metacam is making her feel more comfortable.

 

[user 2700]

They are thin, yes but not emaciated. They are built small, to give you an idea of their size take a look at this photo.

^ That is not a normal sized igloo, that is the small (7" L X 6" W X 4" H) size, and they both just fit in there without lifting it up at all.

 

[user 2700]

Well Baytril was of no use, neither one is showing any improvement. I've been arguing with the vet via phone through a middle man about getting them on a combination and finally he said I could bring them in on Thursday and pay to see their top specialist. They just lost a client. Instead I'll be going to another vet I've used before. I was able to speak to the vet herself and she was pretty displeased with the other vet. I'll be going to see her tomorrow. (They would have gotten me in today had it been more urgent or if I was willing to just drop them off and not be there for the appointment.)