PITUITARY TUMOR:trying Dexamethasone+Cabergoline, need help!

[AmazeLee]

Thanks a lot (I didn't read this one yet)

 

[AmazeLee]

Here I am again, but with Booh this time.

I posted a video on Youtube to show you how she behaves with food.
[BBvideo 450,375:1jskuy4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TdVYH0Me0c&list=PL7cBSO-gug-MKA2nXC18Q2T736RhITUYz&index=2[/BBvideo:1jskuy4w]

I think she has PT too! Crappy coincidence. She's Pepper best friend I'd say
There are the same age, both greys and get along so so well, it's like they're sisters.

Symptoms with Booh are:
At first she was acting weird with her front paws, would hold food between her paws but needed to rest on a flat surface to be able to eat.
Then I saw her only eating with 1 paw.
Then, since 3 or 4 days she's acting like on the video.

Like with Pepper I thought she's use just one paw cause she's an even bigger Mama than Pepper (she used to weight 430g, now she lost 30g but she's stable), just lazyness. At this point, I never heard of PT. If I had known I would have done something to it immediatly, I'm not proud of me on this at all :-( )

Today it seems she's loosing a bit of balance, and I think her head tilts a little (which isn't the case with Pepper)

Oh gosh, what are the chances for such thing to appear at the same time in 2 of my girls! When "they say" PT starts around 18 months, people are just so right (unfortunately!)

Pepper and Booh are together in a secured cage for "unbalanced" rats.

 

[jorats]

Unfortunately, it does appear neurological.
Pure rotten luck.

 

[AmazeLee]

Jorats, I read your post on your blog: http://ratshackforum.com/ratroom/health/spay-stats/
Very informative! Thanks for sharing.

This is the first time for me I have to deal with pituitary adenoma with my critters, I'm such a mess, I don't know how to deal with the pain and what to tell myself about it. I feel guilty (a lot), anyone with tips to help me (my girls needs a strong mommy)?
Does it get any better in time and with the experience of faithing the inevitable?
I know my babies gave me much more laughters and joy than crying, but those days that's not enough for keeping me from crying :-(

 

[jorats]

What my vet told me about PT is that it can be considered an old age disease in rats. It's the end of their life and whatever happens we can prolong their life by slowing down the growth or comfort them while they progress. It gave me some comfort in knowing that the rat had a good life with me and I was there in the end to ease their suffering or help them get a bit more quality in life.
Hugs to you. It really is hard.

 

[julia_silve:)]

for medicines with a short shelf life my vet gives me two half bottles and prepares one, that way i get about a month of meds if something only lasts two weeks. i hope every thing works out.

 

[AmazeLee]

For the sake of research (some may need this infos later like I did)
I'm sharing Shelagh's link for Cheerios test (am I allowed to?)
http://lilspazrats.wikispaces.com/Healt ... eerio+Test

Hopefully my vet will contact Dr Munn today, I soooo wish I'll know about the dosage for Cabergoline today (still giving one drop a day, and started the treatment on Booh as well)
My vet won't be where I go till Wednesday (I have a check up appointment for Pepper that day), they should be forwarding the email to her.

I see no improvment in Pepper with the Dexa shot :-( It's been nearly 48 hours she's been shot.
I really hope Cabergoline will help her bring her back for a bit, so I can get the chance to see her again and kiss her goodbye.
She's just a shadow of Pepper now. I know some way she's still there, but it's heart breaking to see her like that. My poor baby girl.
I'm thinking about putting her to sleep on Wednesday (MAYBE!) cause that would make 5 days she's on Cabergoline, or should I wait a few day more?
I read about Bromocriptine, in some subjects (humans), the drug could work within days but also could take up to 8 months to work.

Jorats: You told me via email your vet does post mortems on all of your ratties, should I understand he did so on your 127 girls, so that's how you came with your stats on PT (on your blog)
If so, those stats are priceless. Cause here, my feeling is ratties are diagnosed with stroke when maybe it's actually PT (those symtpoms are pretty similar from what I read).

Thanks again for support, much appreciated

 

[jorats]

Jorats: You told me via email your vet does post mortems on all of your ratties, should I understand he did so on your 127 girls, so that's how you came with your stats on PT (on your blog)
If so, those stats are priceless. Cause here, my feeling is ratties are diagnosed with stroke when maybe it's actually PT (those symtpoms are pretty similar from what I read).

Thanks again for support, much appreciated

Yes, those stats, the rats had post mortems. She doesn't do them anymore. She doesn't need to "learn" from them now but when we have a mystery case, then she does it.

 

[lilspaz68]

Absolutely share my link! its meant to help and educate

 

[AmazeLee]

Thanks to both of you :hugs:

 

[lilspaz68]

I agree with Jo, Booh also has PT. Can you post a video of Pepper for us? PT is not supposed to be painful, its just a collection of symptoms that progress as the tumour presses on the brain, and I have never felt that PT rats were in any real discomfort. Are you syringe feeding Pepper right now until the meds kick in?

 

[AmazeLee]

I thought so too for Booh, so I gave her a drop of Cabergoline yesterday night.
Trying to get the good things out of the bad (am I making sense?), I'm now learning about this condition, and know my options. Hopefully, I'll quickly now notice when my girls will show sign of PT, and will start the meds immediatly.

Here's a video of Pepper before we went to the vet on Saturday:
[BBvideo 450,375:j96e8pe0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ILgr_StG6c&list=PL7cBSO-gug-MKA2nXC18Q2T736RhITUYz[/BBvideo:j96e8pe0]

And a video 4 hours after she got the Dex shot (unfornutally that was the only time she went to "eat" by herself from then)
[BBvideo 450,375:j96e8pe0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0NQ-QqQaK4&list=PL7cBSO-gug-MKA2nXC18Q2T736RhITUYz[/BBvideo:j96e8pe0]
Footage starts at 16 seconds.


I still of course syringe feed her every couple hours or less (I soak blocks and add some baby cereal and water)
Today she doesn't seem as hungry as usual, she would only eat 1ml of my mix (still better than nothing hun!)
She's still of course losing weight, she now weights 293g (she lost almost 100g)


Edit: Just uploaded a video of Pepper today:
[BBvideo 450,375:j96e8pe0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDP3URPFaHk[/BBvideo:j96e8pe0]

 

[lilspaz68]

How are the girls doing?

 

[AmazeLee]

I found an exoctic vet a couple hours away from where I live and had an appointment yesterday.
Pepper was in a very bad shape, since the day before she almost didn't eat.
This vet knows about Cabergoline, so he said he would have to keep her until Friday, because she was dehydrated, and having hypothermia.
He said he's do his best for her (force feeding her, put her on a heating pad, give her medecinde so she's not dehydrated, etc...) but doesn't have hope to give me. He said to me, he thinks too she wasn't physically hurting that's why we can try this last thing for her and she'd tell us what she wants (meaning if she doesn't get better, we'll put an end to her suffering because she's been a wonderfull & strong baby girl and doesn't deserve ending like a vegetable)
I have to wait till tomorrow, 3PM to know how my baby girl is doing. The wait is killing me. I granted the right to the vet to put her to sleep if she experienced any pain, if she have to go I'd have loved to be here for her a last time, but I can't ask her to wait for me to do a 3 hours "trip" to be with her, I asked her too much already.

Besides my lil Pepper, Booh had a first dose of Cabergoline yesterday, and she's showing improvment already. I just saw her drinking at the drinking bottle. I did the cheerios test again on her, and she was able to hold it with one hand, the other down on the floor for balance, hopefully she'll soon be able to use both hands.
She even tried to bite me when I was teasing her. She didn't bite or even tried for the past 2 weeks.
Crazy lady that I am is saying she's happy to be biten again by her rat, how crazy
I hope she'll keep the improvment coming, and hope some magic will occur for my Pepper too, and give us both extra time to share together

 

[jorats]

That's good news for Booh.
I sure hope Pepper improves but if not, better to let her go. Such hard times with two of them with PT.

 

[lilspaz68]

That is wonderful to hear about Booh and as Jo says, try your best with Pepper...so sorry to hear she's this bad You have a nice vet it sounds like!

 

[AmazeLee]

I just called the vet, 3PM was finally here yay

Doc said Pepper is doing a little better, she eats by herself (wonderfull!), she's still having a hard time if you put her on her back to see if she gets on her feet, but Doc said she slowly manages to get on her feet.
He said he'd rather keep her a few days more, it was hard saying yes cause I want her home, but for her sake it's better I live her there for a few more days.
I keep my fingers crossed for my little Pepper, I know though she's not in my hands she's in good hands

I just saw Booh grabbing a block between her teeth from the feeding bowl, and she went away with it, yay
I just did the cheerios test again on her, still eating with one paw up and one paw down. Hopefully the second dose of Cabergoline will relieve some pressure and she'd be able to use both paws soon

To be continued ;-)

 

[jorats]

That is great news... considering what the girls are going through.

 

[AmazeLee]

Hey there,

Some news about Pepper.
I got her back home on last Tuesday (6 days ago)
She wasn't doing good for the first 48 hours, though the week she spent in the clinic did her some good.
On tuesdays and wednesday, she was still walking like she was drunk and fell on her side from time to time. She started to eat (liquid food) on her own, but her eyes was still pretty close, and she slept a lot, A LOT.

We spent her first 3 days back home together, she was laying on my chest underneath my shirt almost all day long, so she wouldn't feel alone and depressed, and she wouldn't die from hypothermia.
I noticed the machine (her brain I mean) was starting to be back on tracks, when she woke up from her nap, she'd tried to get out of my shirt, at first I didn't want to, but then she peed on me LOL.
She did that a few times LOL, now I know when she wakes up and try escaping my shirt, I help her so she could go pee on the towel next to us. How cute is my Pepper, not wanting to pee on her mommy
That was the first sign she gave me to show that she was getting better

The other sign is she's so very hungry, I still sirynge feed her a lot (but she eats also half by herself).
She was 240g on Thursday, and still at 240g on Saturday. Today, she's at 242g! I'm so proud of her, I hope the gramms will keep on coming
She wants to walk and explore a lot too, I think she's very bored and now realise she is.
She walks pretty well now, well she walks like a rattie who lost a lot of weight but not dizzy walking anymore.

I must admit, I feel a little more confident since the last couple days.
You see my avatar, that's Pepper and her beautifull big dark eyes.
For the last month I missed that look so much, she had her eyes barely opened, well one would kept on beeing opened (i know that also one of the symptom of PT), and today, she has her pretty eyes back wide open.
I can tell she's feeling better

I'm cleaning my big cage (looks like a CN), got to figure out how to secure every move she could make in there, cause I put her for a few minutes in the cage few times a day (closely watched, hand near by in case of fall) and I can see she's happy to smell her cage mate odors, and simply feel the warmth against her from her "sisters"
I know what she needs now is to be with her friends again. My alpha (Ezra) is not so happy about that, she biggens her fur when Pepper is around, but she's a good alpha, not agressive at all, just a strong character and position in the group and she's not willing to leave her place LOL
I think I may have to do some intros again before I put Pepper back in her loft

I did some videos that I'll post on Youtube and on here later (for documentary purpose, though I didn't filmed the 3 first day she was at home, didn't feel like to seeing how she looked and behaved :-/)

Let's cross our fingers so the next time I'll be posting news here, it will be good news again

Thanks again for your support girls, it meant a lot to me

 

[mamarat]

:joy: that's great news.