Pip's Intro to Ed & Al(RIP) [Success!]

[jorats]

That's exactly it. lol

 

[Scythe]

Back to the tub tonight, and nearing the end of tonights round. Lots of grooming, wrestling, and pinning, but Al still hasn't dominated over Pip yet. But much quieter and better than last night. Lots of quick running and jumping, lots of Pip trying to groom Ed and Al, which neither are appreciating right now. It almost looks like Pip wants to play but still wont give in to Al.

 

[victoria]

You add a couple of houses and toys to the tub before you go back to neutral ground. That may help ease things along. Your boys are sooo cute by the way!

 

[jorats]

Pip grooming Al and Ed is showing respect. I think they are progressing well. That's what I like to see when mine groom the other.

 

[Scythe]

They got a house today... But everything's pretty much the same.

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This is a good example of how I can't dominate Pip -- that's what he does every time, now. And he goes for Ed all the time...

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Pip and Al... as usual, LOL. Still the same.

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Pip and Al sat in the house for a little while, though. I couldn't see Al so I wasn't sure what he was doing but Pip looked okay.

 

[jorats]

Too cute! Ok, so first, your rats are sweet. Al is a good alpha, Ed is a scaredy rat. And Pip is a youngun who just wants to have fun.
You need to get a hold of Pip to dominate him. Or at the very least, when he goes for Ed, raise Pip up under the arms and move him slightly away from Ed with a firm NO. I will demonstrate that today in my video.
Also, when you put your hand over Ed and he manages to squeeze away, that's not good. The release must be on your terms not the rat. This way, the touch didn't work for Ed, instead it taught Ed to run away from big hand on him. You need to hold down, give good energy and release. Not hold down and rat squeezes out. Know what I mean?

 

[Scythe]

Al and Pip both seem like they're being brats... LOL. Pip still hasn't let Al dominate him

Pip is VERY hard to get a hold of and dominate. He screeched and bolts for it, and whips around like he'll give a warning bite for touching him. I try pushing him away sometimes but he just goes right back to bugging Ed, who wants no part in these shenanigans. Ed will let him groom him, but only out of fear and he screams the entiiire time.

I let Ed out on purpose when I dominated him, he just ran off with a yell the second i started to loosen my hold on him. I guess I need to let off quicker so he doesn't do that all the time.

Two weeks and they still can't figure themselves out :emb: I want to yell at them, "Cant you all get along?!"

 

[Joanne]

What if you got Pip neutered? Then he might be more willing to let Al dominate him.

 

[Scythe]

What if you got Pip neutered? Then he might be more willing to let Al dominate him.

That's true, that'd probably help, though I want to see if i can avoid it if I can.... I only want to neuter for aggression, just because I've never done a rat in surgery or anything before I'm trying to hold it out as my last resort, as tempting as it is just to get them to all get along LOL. :emb:

 

[Scythe]

Today was a boring intro... The first 20 minutes had a couple scuffles, Pip is finally letting me dominate him without too much hassle like he was doing in the video. Al is sloowly starting to poof less and jump up to bumrush less. Pip and Ed are still being brats, though.

After the 20 minutes, everyone but Pip slept... Pip just kept wandering around trying to get out of the tub and waking the others up. Today they were back to no toys, I had to take them away last night because last night as a mess of fights and squabbles every 5 minutes because of the house. @_@

Last night, though... Someone finally pinned Pip down! And it was.. Ed! i was surprised, Ed's usually a huge chicken... I'd have thought Al would get it first.

Maybe I'm finally getting somewhere with this @_@

 

[hopefloats]

It sounds like you are that is awesome....I give and take houses away often it sstill amazes me how a house can cause issues lol I like when you dominate on them and the sulk away like you broke their heart and ego....you are doing good with them...

 

[jorats]

Oh awesome Ed!!! I bet Pip wanted it just as much as Ed and Al. lol

 

[Joanne]

It sounds like you ARE making progress! Keep at it - it will be worth it in the end....

 

[Scythe]

Oh awesome Ed!!! I bet Pip wanted it just as much as Ed and Al. lol

LOL. He probably did.

They are all still very tense when they get close to each other, and there are also scuffles between Ed and Al brewing during intros, now. Pip doesn't seem keen on submissing to either of them since then -- he's pinned Ed back down a couple times. When Al goes for him he just gets up with his front feet up and freezes like he's not sure what's going on... But he runs away and then runs right back like he thinks its a game. :emb: Which pisses Al off and thats when the fast moving chasing and bumrushing and sometimes rat balls happen.

Tonight I'll give them 20 minutes... if they are the same as last night, I'll give them the same house they fought over and see how they do with it.

 

[xKrAzEdShOoTeRx]

reminds me of my brother and i lol

 

[Scythe]

They did really well with the houses last night.. Biggest reoccurring thing was Al and his marking of the houses... So, tonight I let them Pip run around on familiar ground for a while to make him run off some energy, then I let Al and Ed out and hoped that Pip would be tired and maybe submit or not give much of a fuss.

From the get go, it was a disaster. Catching any of the rats to try and dominate them was like taking a huge risk of being bitten. Pip was screaming so loud when I had to grab him near the end that it woke my Grandfather up in the next room. It was just constant fights. By the time I caught Pip and called it quits, Pip was running away from Ed and Al the second they were near him.

The weirdest part? Ed has done a complete 180. He was straight out attacking Pip. He would run and fly up into the air at him. He would trap him under the CN. Chase him out of his hiding spots. Then it got quiet... and I figured maybe they worked it out... But then it only started up again and that was when I started to try and catch Pip and toss him away for the night.

I'm so confused. They get to a point where they seem okay, so I try to move forward, and then all hell breaks lose. It's like they'll never be okay with each other anywhere but the tub, and Pip will STILL not submit to either of them. He simply stands there frozen when they try and dominate him... Ed has only dominated him once.

After houses and toys in the tub, I don't know where to go. There's no 'middle' ground between neutral and familiar. The rats have only ever, ever been in my room and they get the entire floor to wander... gaaaah. It's almost going on 4 weeks of intros still stuck in the tub...

 

[jorats]

Ok. You can't go back to the tub. That's just stalling it. We have to think of a new strategy. You will need to block them off, don't give them the full bedroom to run around in. You need a controlled area. You'll have to find a way to make a corral. Ed attacking Pip is not good but nothing much you can do there until he gets used to it. Are you able to have them switch cages? That might help if not, then put a day old hammock of Pip's into the other boys' cage and vice versa. Give that a try and let me know.

 

[Scythe]

Ok. You can't go back to the tub. That's just stalling it. We have to think of a new strategy. You will need to block them off, don't give them the full bedroom to run around in. You need a controlled area. You'll have to find a way to make a corral. Ed attacking Pip is not good but nothing much you can do there until he gets used to it. Are you able to have them switch cages? That might help if not, then put a day old hammock of Pip's into the other boys' cage and vice versa. Give that a try and let me know.

I can do a switch. Would overnight be long enough? I don't want to have Ed and Al in Pip's cage too long, it's a little small and only temporary until Pip moves in with them, but they sleep all night anyway so I'm sure it wouldn't bother them for a night. Should I hide treats in each others cages so it's kind of like a positive thing or will it really matter?

Would Rona have chloroplast I can block off nooks and crannies like under the cage, behind the bookshelf, etc to make the space smaller?

 

[hopefloats]

card board boxes work well too, you can break them down and tape or use binder clips to hold them together

 

[jorats]

Rona did have coroplast at one time here but then they stopped carrying it in my city but I don't know about anywhere else. You could go to furniture stores and see if you can take their large cardboard boxes for fridges and stuff, that would work just fine like Peggy says.
Yes, do the overnight... anything will help.