Petrie had Pneumonia - RIP, Mein Engel

[M0onkist]

Really bad, really sudden. If she was an older rat Dr. Munn wouldn't hold out hope, but she's young (14 months) so... we really hope she'll bounce.

She's at Dr. Munn's now and will stay there over the weekend until Monday afternoon at the earliest for sub-Q and several antibiotics - Mom gave her a kiss and they whisked her off all bundled in a blanket.

I feel awful that I didn't catch this before now... how can a ratty telephone sound normal when there's pneumonia?! And no/minimal porphyrin until the last couple of hours. I knew there was something wrong last night with how lethargic she was... but even the day before, it was all bounce, all the time. Bounce, wrestle, glare indignantly and squirm when cuddled...

So everyone, cross your fingers?

 

[hopefloats]

Don't feel bad. I got hit with 3 and missed it totally. They don't make anoise which is why it is called the silent killer. You have to know what to look for and her. Healing. Vibes to your baby.

 

[jorats]

Oh man, and I think dr. Munn doesn't do Zithro? A combo of Baytril and zithro might save her life and usually the results are fast.

 

[hopefloats]

Lol don't scare her jo...I had good results with the other meds lol

 

[M0onkist]

I know Dr. Munn gave Mom Doxy to keep on-hand (unmixed) in the event the other two get sick. I don't know beyond baytril and sub-Q fluids (probably some antibiotics injected) what he's going to give her - Mom wasn't too sure of the details, and she was upset that Petrie should be sick. She loves Dr. Munn though, and I think knowing that Petrie's going to be in his hands helped her some - I know it helped me! (don't get me wrong, I'm still on the verge of a nervous breakdown)

I've been re-reading your thread kind of obsessively, Hope... I can't believe you went through it with more than one!

Just got to count down the hours until I can call them tomorrow morning to see how she's doing...

 

[victoria]

I feel awful that I didn't catch this before now... how can a ratty telephone sound normal when there's pneumonia?! And no/minimal porphyrin until the last couple of hours.

I've had that before... the rat phone is definitely not fool proof. Neither is a stethoscope, I've had vets in the past tell me my rats are fine when I knew there was something wrong.

I hope she gets better, she's in good hands at least. Monty was very sick when I adopted him and the vets didn't think he'd make it but he was with us for another 16 months, although on meds for almost all of that time.

 

[mamarat]

Sending healing vibes to your sweetie.

 

[M0onkist]

Yep - as soon as I checked on her last night I knew there was something wrong - despite the ratty-phone, lack of porph, etc. Took my Mom until this morning to catch that vibe - not that I could really do anything last night of course. Now just to wait and worry.

 

[M0onkist]

And apparently her uterus is a bit swollen - totally random...

 

[crumbilina]

:hugs:

Fingers/paws crossed here!!!

She is in the best possible hands... after all, he saved Zeus!!! (I know different, but still a miracle of sorts imo if anyone can make her feel better its Dr. Munn)

 

[lilspaz68]

Ms Petrie will be in the Oxygen cage (they use it for dogs/cats), cozy on fleece, with an igloo to craw into with people offering her food and yummy's.

She will be given baytril and doxy orally, she will have gotten dexamethasone in her sub-q ringers (fluids) and she hopefully will feel better for that.

Dr Munn will likely try to feed her the same special soft diet that she used for Zeus (recent discovery at the annual AEMV conference.

Jo, Dr Munn does use zithro.

Patricia, how sick was she when you took her in? Was she completely limp and lethargic or just a weak sick rat?

 

[M0onkist]

Last I saw her was around 8 AM - the appointment was at 4PM. I'm at Nana's now, so Mom took her to Dr. Munn's. She checked on her hourly during the day though.

When I last handled her I pulled her out of the boat (she LOVED sleeping in the boat last night and today - basically lived in the boat, actually), and she didn't put up any resistance (usually she splays her hind legs out to catch on things). I held her so her feet were in the air, and she didn't flip like she *always* does. I stroked her head while keeping her well-supported by both hands, sort of propped up, then tucked her head under my chin - still no flipping, no anger, not even irritation. She was definitely walking around last night, albeit slowly - she thought for a few seconds before climbing up the side of the cage to get to another level. This was usually so she could get back to the boat - she might stop to eat a bit of carrot or sniff some things, but within a few minutes it was back to the boat to sleep some more.

Definitely no problem with her heart though, I checked her paws and tail and Dr. Munn did too - pretty and pink those feet and that tail are.

It's scary how fast this came on - I had checked on them all around 8 AM Thursday and she was fine and spritely, then I wasn't back at the house until 10PM Thursday. Checked on her, and she was semi-lethargic. By this morning, completely lethargic.

I think it's pretty serious - or at least that's how Mom said Dr. Munn had put it - a serious/severe case of pneumonia. Her age will pull her through we hope - if she was maybe two years old Dr. Munn said he wouldn't hope for it.

Is there any chance that she has bad lungs like her Momma Kelly and Auntie Jill? I know we thought at the time that it was really only the older generation that would have bad lungs because they lived on... well, dung, but is there sometimes a genetic component?

 

[hopefloats]

Just keep the faith. When I took lucy in, he told me to put her down. Her lungs were so full he couldnt even see her heart. I didn't and she beat the odds and is now beating everyone up in the cage. I think bad genetics can be passed down. I know it is hard to be without her and worry, I can say those first few days are the worse to watch. I would of loved to had my girls with vets instead of here watching it. Least they are equipped for problems. I was equipped with a lilspaz and eagle LOL

It has taken about 5 or more days for the lungs to start to clear up here when we had it.

Rats can pull through things you dont think they ever could. I have been utterly amazed. I will keep my crews toes crossed for her.

 

[fenshae]

First off, so sorry to hear about your sweetie...here's hoping Dr. Munn's magic pulls her through.

Second, and I hate to hijack a thread, but pneumonia on its own can cause that sort of extreme lethargy/limpness/unresponsiveness? Oh my GOD. I always assumed that the "creeping paralysis" was a separate issue from the pneumonia, I've lost 2 rats to that before and never occurred to me that the pneumonia itself was causing that. I feel really dumb now. Also very annoyed at my vet for not doing any of this awesome life-saving stuff. /end rant.

EDITED: wtf why did I type "hijack a cage" omg I need to get more sleep. *fixes post*

 

[M0onkist]

Oh heavens, hijack away, Fenshae! I want to learn all I possibly can about this, so I can prevent it next time!

 

[jorats]

I just want to add that a vet can't diagnose pneumonia to 100% certainty. Many times my vet figured it was pneumonia when in fact it turned out to be something else. There could be a number of reasons why the rat is experiencing those symptoms.

 

[hopefloats]

It doesnt make a sound. The thing you really have to listen for, is that you dont hear the breaths like a normal breathing rat. and the side breathing.

Here is some on it, i wont post the ones during because I was a train wreck going through that

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27365&p=378824#p378824

When we had it and they were to weak, they were dehydrated.

It sneaks up on you. I had no idea i had problems, then one after another in August I ended up with 3. One was ok, but the other two never made a sound. Not even a sneeze. The boy did, but found him gasping when it turned into pneumonia. I only seen staining with the two pew girls, my other two not a single drop.

 

[Joanne]

Sorry that your sweetie came down with pneumonia. She sounds exactly like one of the girls I worked with! LOL Heavy chest, but really, really tired and weak. Not a lot of lung sounds. Here's hoping Petrie bounces back. She's young and healthy otherwise, so she should beat it.

 

[M0onkist]

Just passed along your description to Mom, Shelagh - she thinks there were more than 2 antibiotics being used (though she might have mistaken the dex for an antibiotic).

And Dr. Munn's words were 'severe pneumonia'. Not serious, as I guessed before.

 

[jorats]

M0onkist, have you asked your vet why he won't prescribe Zithromax? We've brought back a few rats from the brink of death with severe pneumonia with Zithromax and Baytril.
I remember once, my mom's rat was at the gasping point, my vet looked at us sadly and said, well go ahead, try it but really, she's done. But nope, Lollipop was treated and even to the point where we could stop meds for her. She was healthy again.
Also, I want to point out that heavy chested can also mean pulmonary abscesses or abscesses in the chest wall.