Oliver is freaking out: Update 03/04

[Chevalrose]

So just a moment ago, Oliver ran around the cage like a madman. He wasn't running from Romeo or popcorning...he looked like he was panicking or something. His nose is now really red...it doesn't look porphyrin stained it looks like, rubbed raw kind of red...but maybe it looks different on hairless rats? He's not breathing with any noise or anything. I don't know what could be wrong? We did just bring him home a couple days ago...so maybe something scared the crap out of him!? Nothing out of the ordinary happened as far as I could tell before he ran. After he did that I picked him up and he was entirely still and lax in my hand (not like unconscious type lax...but I could easily move him around). Could this be something other than fear?

 

[Chevalrose]

I really think that it's because he's really randomly scared. I'm going to bring him to the vet tomorrow if I can, if not I can't bring him until Tuesday...just to make sure he's not sick, but I don't think he is. He just did it again, but I think that I woke him up and he got scared and ran around. Afterward he'll sit there with his eyes closed (which I've heard rats do when they're scared?).

What I don't understand is that in a new situation, he gets all excited (like when we brought them home he played around and popcorned everywhere and same as when we moved the playpen and made it bigger...but then the next day he seems scared of it all).

If the vet gives him a clean bill of health and it is him being scared...what do I do? He's not scared of people or anything...just the environment I guess. It doesn't seem to be anything specific that sets him off either...it seems kind of random. Any ideas?

 

[lilspaz68]

How old is he?

 

[Chevalrose]

almost 8 weeks

 

[lilspaz68]

almost 8 weeks

I found that some of my younger rats would go through these crazy phases of Terror of Everything...you couldn't touch them, YOU became the enemy...hahaha. They go rigid and then run frantically (bolt)...this is a possibility.

 

[Chevalrose]

That's pretty relieving. I was scared he might have some weird terrible something or other. He's really tiring himself out from it too.

Any thing I can do to help him out a bit...or just wait it out? Should I still go to the vet just in case?

I can't really tell if he's eating or not. He's never eaten anything I've given him aside from his lab blocks. No cheese, no blueberries, no bread, nothing. I'm terrified he's losing weight, but I think I'm overreacting. I've never had hairless...so they generally look skinnier than I'm used to...plus these guys are small for their age. Do some rats just not like people food?

Here's the little guy after tiring himself out after today's freak outs:

and his brother for good measure

 

[lilspaz68]

What does his brother do when he freaks out?

 

[Chevalrose]

Absolutely nothing...ignores him really.

 

[lilspaz68]

Absolutely nothing...ignores him really.

Hmmm...usually its like a herd of deer, one startles and they all do. Watch him carefully and log everything he does. Is he lethargic afterwards, does he bolt around and actually hit the cage sides with unseeing eyes, etc.

 

[Chevalrose]

That is exactly what it's like. He is lethargic afterward (I'm assuming from using so much energy to bolt around the cage) and he just flies around everywhere without looking...like in a panic.

EDIT: So...third time tonight and makes me think it's DEFIANTLY a fear thing. I took him a little further away from the cage to get the nail clippers to clip his toes...and there was a moan on TV (Adams Family) and he started to squirm in my hand then when I put him in he just bolted around everywhere in a panic. After he stops he's like...catatonic. I took him out and clipped his nails and he just let me do it. His brother just kind of sat there and listened to him running around and went about his business...he's a really laid back rattie though.

Is this something I can work out of him?

 

[lilspaz68]

That is exactly what it's like. He is lethargic afterward (I'm assuming from using so much energy to bolt around the cage) and he just flies around everywhere without looking...like in a panic.

How often does he do this?

 

[Chevalrose]

3 times since I've been home this evening, and possibly twice last night.

 

[Chevalrose]

He's really starting to hurt himself...unless this is the underlying reason he's running around. His face is not all cut up and his nose looks like it's bleeding. I'm pretty sure it's from him running like a mad man...he had one scratch on his face before I went to bed, and now his face is all cut up and one if his toe nails ripped off. There's no other marks on his body...just his face. I really don't know what to do about this.

He did it 4 times last night...it woke me up every time. I thought "maybe he's looking for somewhere to hide...so I put a saltine's box in there. He still did it. Then I put fleece around their cage and he STILL did it but not as aggressively. This last time was the worst out of all of them. My neighbors have been moving around in the attic and stuff for some reason early this morning...so that could be the cause of it...but I don't know what to do about him hurting himself for one and getting SO panicked for two. He gets absolutely terrified! I mean, I could understand during the day we might make some strange noise and the lights on....but at night!?

And after this last time he seems Ok...he's running in the wheel right now instead of paralyzed in fear. This rat is going to be the death of me.

 

[jorats]

Sounds like a neurotic little guy. He might grow out of it. My Moose did. He did it for a time and then I was very careful with movement around the cage and didn't allow other pets near his cage but what really made him feel more secure, he was introed to more rats. Does your little fella get outside of cage time?

 

[Chevalrose]

I just brought him home Tuesday...so I was letting them get acclimated to the new cage and everything before letting them out. I also have to get the playpen back from my parent's house. They're too little to be out in the open on the couch like my other boys...I don't trust my cat with them yet, she's scared of the bigger ones, but since these guys are so young, they look pretty yummy.

And it's so RANDOM! I mean, something is happening to scare him...once it was the cat, once it was the TV, but other times something will happen and I'll expect it and he's just there grooming himself like nothing matters. Maybe they're too bored and he gets in his own head, but when he's distracted doing something else he's fine...that sounds a little ridiculous, are rats that deep?

I will be intro-ing them to my older boys. I was going to try tomorrow. I wasn't sure if it would be something that would chill him out or stress him out more. I'll go ahead with the plan though.

Do you think I should take him to the vet just in case? He seems healthy other than this oddity.

 

[jorats]

If he were mine, I would not bring him to a vet. I doubt a vet can do anything for a panic attack. But if it does continue to the point that he keeps hurting himself, (moose did that too) then you might consider asking a vet's advice. But for now, I'd do lots of down the shirt trick. It sounds like this guy needs to know he's safe and sound with you.

 

[Chevalrose]

Well he is extremely social and not fearful of me at all...so at least we got something going for us. I'll try the "down the shirt" and hope for the best! They do like to burrow into my hair (they did when I walked them around my parent's house). I haven't done much with them yet here. What I don't understand is that he didn't do this at my parent's house at all. He was scared at times, but didn't do this massive flip-out.

I am a bit relieved though that he's not the only rat to do this. It's just really hard to fathom.

 

[Chevalrose]

So this morning Oliver had one of his "episodes". He fell over and tried to keep running, but he was addled...I'm pretty sure he slammed his head into the wheel. He waddled over to the litterbox and did the same thing, then seemed to seize up and give a squeak. I took him to the eVet after that. She agreed that it's probably a behavioral thing that is causing this because he is absolutely healthy otherwise. It could be him hitting his head hard, and so often, that could cause him to seize or become addled. She just wants me to keep an eye on him and suggested padding the cage with towels. Also to try to get the episodes on camera and the aftermath if I could.

She also suggested waiting to intro the other rats until he stops with these episodes, but I don't know if I agree with that. Any suggestions?

This guy is giving me a heart attack.

 

[jorats]

Did the vet mention epilepsy at all?
A video would be helpful but you'd have to fast to follow him going through the cage like that.

So far Oliver has had his episodes without going through intros. I'm not sure if I'd wait but if you were speaking to an exotic vet who is rat savvy then you might consider her advice and wait.

 

[Godmother]

It really sounds like seizures to me. Poor baby, he must be bewildered. I have never had a rat with that problem, so I don't know how it is treated in rats. A friend of mine's dog had recurrent seizures and she was treated with phenobarb (which seemed odd to me, because they don't use that drug for people's seizures).