Oliver. (Another update) Please help me...

[OlliesGirl]

(Page 2 updated March 1)

Here is the link to the last update we had with the boys: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16344&p=221659#p221659

Here is a quick recap though:
Baytri, which helped and then it came back.
The vet gave him 2 injections of ivomectin for mites treatment.
2 weeks on sulfatrim which barely helped until after he stopped taking it.
Now this time he was on Cipro and Doxy for 4 weeks. Dec 26 to Jan 23.

And yesterday he started up again with his bad breathing.

I am absolutely beside myself. We just can't beat this thing whatever it is! We still have the Zithromax that Eagle has been so kind as to give us, and we still have some Cipro and Doxy, but I'm not sure what we do with it now. Lilspaz was the one who helped Nakkida and I with the dosing information before so I will be contacting her for that. I'm not sure if we should try something different or just put him back on Cipro and Doxy for a long time period. I have no idea.

I just don't understand why this keeps happening to him. The weird thing is is that he doesn't seem affected by it at all. He still has his energy and he doesn't act sick! He just sounds funny. Like a Guinna Pig. There is nothing on his nose and he is eating fine. What do we do??

 

[Moon]

If he's not got any sort of labored breathing and the sounds are all nasal, not from his chest, have we looked into outside issues? Bedding, outside scents, molds or other possible allergens?

 

[OlliesGirl]

He is in my sister's bedroom, he lives in a separate cage from Tristan still, on fleece bedding with carefresh in his litter box. His bedding is washed and cage cleaned every week. I'm not sure about mold but when we wash the bedding it is in the washer with a very small amount of tide and it is double rinsed. I haven't really thought about laundry soap... Could that be it? But wouldn't it upset Tristan as well?
It doesn't appear that it is labored breathing but in the early stage (before it becomes a constant sound) it does get louder if he is exerting himself.

 

[Moon]

As with us, some rats are more sensitive to scent than others. Some rats are affected by the dust in carefresh. And once a week fleece changes are probably not enough unless he's in a huge cage.

The sound though, is it coming from his nose or his lungs?

 

[OlliesGirl]

oh my... The cage is about 30" by 18" at the base and it is three stories high. He also lives alone. Is there any special soaps I can wash the fabric in that would clean it, like for pets? And what should I use that would be better than carefresh?

To me it sounds like his nose. When it first started and the vet listened to him he said he could hear some congestion in his chest but it took him a couple listens and he listened to Tristan for a comparison so I believe he didn't hear very much in his lungs.

 

[lilspaz68]

It is sounding nasal, which isn't anywhere near as scary. He may just be one of those rats. You always try to medicate it first. But the sound cleared completely on the meds?

 

[OlliesGirl]

Yes it cleared with all of the meds we have tried. The Sulfatrim took longer to kick in but it did help. Each time it is fine and then when he gets off the meds he starts up again. That is the confusing part to me. He lasted almost a week with out the cipro and doxy and he has just started up again.

 

[MomRat]

I've not yet tested it out for rat bedding, but there is a new laundry detergent in cloth diapering circles that is all the rage recently, and supposedly rinses amazingly clean, with no extra rinses - comes in lots of yummy scents, too, including unscented. It's called rockin' green. You might look them up and let us know how it works for you. =)

 

[OlliesGirl]

Thank you very much! I will most definitely look into that!

 

[Moon]

Yesterday's news... handles smell better and less dusty!!!!

 

[OlliesGirl]

Alright then.
I just bought a sample of that rockin' green for sensitive skin. (Thanks Momrat!)
I am going to get some yesterdays news.

But now, do I need to put him on meds again? I just got the dosing info from Lilspaz for Zithro and Cipro.
And if so, for how long this round?

 

[jorats]

Sulfatrim, Cipro and doxy really aren't ideal meds for respiratory infections.
I'd be doing Baytril and Zithro at this point. And probably a treatment for at least a couple of months.

 

[eagle]

Tonya what is the humidity level in the room. I run a small humidifier in the room with the rats and it seems to help. Just a thought.

 

[OlliesGirl]

A couple months. Oh gosh Jo. That seems like forever, my poor little guy.
But I do not have any Baytril. Is Cipro not as good with the Zithro?

And Eagle, I'm not sure what the humidity level is in the room. But all we have is something called a coolmist humidifier and I'm afraid it would make the room cold...
I suppose if I give them some extra blankets it would make up for it. I'll try anything. Thanks for the thought!

 

[OlliesGirl]

Alright. Well I'm going to go ahead and start with the cipro and zithro tomorrow then.
For two months... I feel like I'm running in circles anic:

I'm just curious though, is this on and off with the medicine thing going to have some sort of a negative affect on Oliver?
Two months just seems so long... is this normal for rats? I'm just concerned about him being medicated for so long because he is a different rat when he is.

 

[Joanne]

But all we have is something called a coolmist humidifier and I'm afraid it would make the room cold...

A cool mist humidifier just means that it doesn't use heat to evaporate the water into the air. Instead it mechanically sprays a fine mist. It works fine, and doesn't make them cold unless it was aimed at the cage and got them all wet. You may find that whatever is directly in front of the humidifier will get a little wet. The only thing I found was that you have to make sure you clean it on a regular basis or it will grow that pink slime, and you don't want to be spraying microbes into the air!
And it is quite common to have to put ratties on antibiotics for 6 to 8 weeks. Short stints of a week or two just promote resistant bacteria. My last two girls had such bad respiratory issues that they were on antibiotics for the last 10 months of their lives.

 

[OlliesGirl]

Thanks for the info about the coolmist Joanne!
And I really hope that it doesn't come down to a more permanent situation like that. I really hope 8 weeks will do it.

Does anyone know what I should expect if this round doesn't fix him?
Do I need to take him back to the vet?
Does that mean it is very serious?

I'm sorry I have so many questions. I just really expected him to be better by now... I'm at a complete loss.
I'm going to try and record the sound he is making so maybe someone will recognize it or something...

 

[OlliesGirl]

Okay this is what he sounds like.

This was a video I took of him in early December before the Cipro and Doxy
http://s676.photobucket.com/albums/vv12 ... 059551.flv

This was yesterday and a it is bit shorter video, if the first one is trouble.
http://s676.photobucket.com/albums/vv12 ... 313311.flv

 

[jorats]

I call that monkey noises. Very hard to get rid of. It's hard to recommend not doing anything because it can end up being quite serious. But then it's also hard to recommend a 2 months course of treatment. I've had a couple of rats do that and 2 months of Baytril and Zithro did the trick.

 

[OlliesGirl]

Oh Oliver! :cry4:

Okay so what do you think my best option would be now Jo? He has been treated with practically everything and he gets better but it just comes right back when he's off the meds.

Do I go ahead with the Zithro and Cipro? I do not have Baytril... I need your wisdom!

Oh and is it contagious?