Numbers? Spays and tumours

[crumbilina]

I would like to ask those of you who have had females spayed and not spayed about tumours...

Currently, I'm in a situation where one of my girls has just had a tumour removed on the 18th of october. Tonight, I noticed that on the same leg another tumour has popped up and it is growing fast. I know its growing fast because I had been checking the incision almost daily until late last week (Thursday/Friday). I would have noticed this new lump because it is on the same leg, just at the front of the leg not the back and when I inspected the incision later on as healing occurred, I felt the area a lot, and there were no lumps. Now its about the size of a small grape.

I had debated getting her spayed when she went under for the tumour removal, but for some reason I decided not to.

What I would like to know from people is what THEIR experience is with rats who have had a tumour, was spayed at the same time as the first tumour removal and how many did/did not have a tumour recur. In addition, if a rat had multiple tumours removed and was spayed on a removal after the first tumour, was there recurrence? Information about this in older rats (say, tumour removal and spay around 2 years of age?) would be most beneficial.

I honestly don't want studies or anything else like that, I would just like the experiences of people on here. I have read the studies and have found they are iffy and all over the place.

I have to make a couple decisions for more then the rat mentioned above, and I would like to make as informed a decision as possible.

Thanks in advance! If anyone needs any clarification, just let me know

 

[hopefloats]

All my 7 girls were spayed around 17 months old. Only mallly and bindi had tumors pop up after. All my current girls were spayed very young in age so I am waiting to see if we get any tumors. Skittles had a tumor that was removed after her spay. so far no tumor. One i thought was one but it doesnt appear to be a tumor but maybe fat tissue.

Cordelia had tumors when we got her in march, had those removed one week spayed the next week. Guessing she was around 18-20 months old then. Still running around tumor free.

We also have marinette and lydia, spayed as older girls so far no tumors but they are new..

 

[crumbilina]

All my 7 girls were spayed around 17 months old. Only mallly and bindi had tumors pop up after. All my current girls were spayed very young in age so I am waiting to see if we get any tumors. Skittles had a tumor that was removed after her spay. so far no tumor. One i thought was one but it doesnt appear to be a tumor but maybe fat tissue.

Did any of them have tumours before the spay?

 

[hopefloats]

yes cordelia and skittles. Bindi had a few odd lumps but not sure what type they were before her spay, after we never seen them again but she did end up with a tumor. I would spay just because the ones who had them never got them once spayed......

 

[victoria]

My first rats, Buster and Molly, were spayed at 8 months but a week before the spays Molly developed a mammary tumour that was removed at the same time as the spay. Molly got another tumour not even 6 months later and it was removed also. She and her sister died relatively young because of respiratory issues and my vet at the time wasn't very rat savvy. Buster never got a tumour.

The next three rats I adopted at 7 months of age were Amelia, Taffy and Caramel. They didn't get any tumours and I didn't spay them because I didn't have the money and they had chronic resp issues.

Lizzie and Cloud were also not spayed. Lily got a tumour at 20 months old that was removed by Dr. Munn and didn't come back. She passed away from a pituitary tumour at 26 months. Cloud got a mammary tumour at 25 months that was removed and passed away from pneumonia at 29 months.

Butterscotch and Oreo were adopted when they were one. Butterscotch developed a tumour at 17 months (approx) and I got her implanted. The implant slowed down the tumour growth a lot, I eventually removed it without incident because I got nervous. It didn't come back. She passed away at 33 months of a pituitary tumour. I implanted Oreo at two years of age but she developed to fast growing tumours that were removed at 28 months and the vet thought were malignant. One grew back and she also developed uterine tumours shortly after surgery, she passed away at 32 months of a PT.

Ava and Anabelle were the two females in my next trio. I implanted them both at approx 21 months of age because Ava had a mammary tumour on her collar bone. It grew and I agonized over it because she had chronic resp issues but finally I had it removed and she passed post-op. Anabelle did develop a mammary tumour as well but I can't remember when. I didn't remove it and she passed of a pituitary tumour at 29 months.

Sophie and Grace came to us when they were 15 months old. Grace passed away from a pituitary tumour from a pituitary tumour before she turned 2, she was not spayed. Her sister got a typical mammary tumour under her armpit and she was implanted at 19 months of age. The first tumour was eventually removed but she had many others pop up. The initial lump and the 7 (!) she had when she passed were tested, the first was a benign mammary mass, the others malignant and not mammary.

Bandit and Amy were my first failed fosters. Amy was put to sleep because of a very attached, fast growing tumour on her throat. She was not spayed and didn't have any mammary tumours. Bandit was implanted at about two years of age but she developed a mammary tumour in her armpit. It was slow growing and she passed away at 3 years of age in her sleep.

I adopted Lily at 3 months of age when she was pregnant with her second litter. I aborted the litter and spayed her, she is 25.5 months and has not had any tumours.

Geraldine was spayed young (can't remember when, younger than 4 months though) and at 18.5 months she has not had any tumours.

Ginger and Daisy were estimated to be the same age as Geraldine but I'm not sure anymore. I think Ginger is older (20-24 months?) and I don't know if Daisy is Ginger's sister or daughter. Both were spayed and have not had any tumours but Ginger has had a pituitary since August and has had surgery to remove one abscess (July) and another abscess and a wart like tumour last week. Daisy has no lumps.

Whiskers was spayed young (4-6 months) and is a little older than 18 months and has no tumours.

My other four rats were only spayed very recently so I won't list them.

 

[lilspaz68]

I can go through my list of spayed/not spayed if you want Jenny, do you want only tumours that showed up before 24 months or even after? Do you want tumours that probably affected lifespan or not the ones that pop up on oldies but never truly impinge on their life?

 

[lilspaz68]

Also, Joanne has a personal rat study up on http://www.ratbehavior.org/SpayTumorInc ... etRat.html

I think she has continued the study on her own, so you might want to direct her to this thread.

 

[crumbilina]

I can go through my list of spayed/not spayed if you want Jenny, do you want only tumours that showed up before 24 months or even after? Do you want tumours that probably affected lifespan or not the ones that pop up on oldies but never truly impinge on their life?

Basically I wanted to know if it would make a difference to spay her since a second tumour has popped up. Plus Tellie has a tumour too, and i wasnt sure if I was going to have her spayed at the same time as the removal... After this though, I think Tellie is a for sure spay.

Just trying to weigh my options. I mean, there is no harm getting smudge and tellie spayed, but the way that school/work is going right now, I might not be able to do both. So I wanted to gauge success rates of spays after multiple mammary tumours, and spays after just one. I'm going in for an appt with Dr. G on Friday, so ill ask him to give me a quote for tumour removal and spay on both tellie and smudge and decide if there is enough in the vet fund There is right now, but I have to think of when I'm finally done school and things that may happen in between school and job, ya know? I wish that I had a secure few months a head of me... bleh. Life is scary sometimes

 

[jorats]

Here's what I put together, included are my rats, my mom's and my sister's.

We had a total of 127 females spayed so far, and only 3 could not be spayed due to poor lungs.
Out of the 3, 1 did develop multiple tumours which resulted in her demise.
Out of the 127, 7 needed a tumour removed at the time of spay.
Out of the 127, 11 had a tumour recur after the spay.
Out of the 11, only 1 rat had a tumour at the time of spay and a tumour recur after the spay.
Out of 127, 116 had no tumour occurrence after a spay.
Some more interesting facts: 48 rats were spayed under 4 months of age. Out of that 48, only 1 had a tumour occur after their spay.
Out of the 127 spayed rats, 37 of them died from a pituitary adenoma.

 

[lilspaz68]

Well there you go :thumbup:

How many were spayed after a year or a year and a half Jo with no more tumour incidence? Or is that a lot more work? LOL

 

[crumbilina]

I think the combined results of what victoria, jorats and hopefloats posts are telling me is that I need to have both tellie and smudge spayed. So that is what I will manage to do Thanks guys, thats really all I needed to make my decision.

I'll be sure to track everything from here on in. This way I can have my own little study started lol

Thanks again!

 

[jorats]

Well there you go :thumbup:

How many were spayed after a year or a year and a half Jo with no more tumour incidence? Or is that a lot more work? LOL

I'm going to do it anyways, it would be interesting to add that info.

 

[jorats]

3 who were spayed at 14m and up had a tumour afterwards.

 

[lilspaz68]

I always thought that if a tumour developed once a rat was spayed at an older age, the growth of the tumour would also be slower because it didn't have the "fuel" of the estrogen? have you found this so Jo?

 

[jorats]

I always thought that if a tumour developed once a rat was spayed at an older age, the growth of the tumour would also be slower because it didn't have the "fuel" of the estrogen? have you found this so Jo?

Absolutely. In one case, a rat was spayed at 20 months. She had a tumour removal as well and when we brought her home from the spay, we found a super small pea sized tumour under her arm. But within a week of the spay, that lump disappeared. After a few months, it did come back but grew very slowly.

 

[victoria]

That's similar to my experience with implants - benign tumours grow slowly and sometimes shrink initially.

I forgot someone in my small essay... Penny was implanted at 24-30 months of age (August of this year) and she's never has a tumour.

 

[jorats]

That's similar to my experience with implants - benign tumours grow slowly and sometimes shrink initially.

I forgot someone in my small essay... Penny was implanted at 24-30 months of age (August of this year) and she's never has a tumour.

Victoria, do you have all your stats for the implants? I'd love to post it on my blog.

 

[victoria]

I can send you an email a little later. I am opting for spays in most cases because I had one implant wear off early and Oreo had uterine tumours but when I'm not entirely comfortable with surgery, I opt for them. I also did my first two o-spays (my vet's firsts on a living patient) so we'll see how that turns out.

 

[crumbilina]

3 who were spayed at 14m and up had a tumour afterwards.

This is out of how many that were spayed at that age?

This is what i was worried about. If these girls were younger they would be in for a spay no questions asked. I do not want any more girls at my place who are not spayed. Unfortunately its been older girls who have come to me lately so i haven't had any spayed.
I just worry about whether or not it is "worth it" to spay a rat at this age who already had tumours and have them recur.

I use the term "worth it" loosely, I just couldnt think of a different way to word this sentence...

 

[jorats]

3 who were spayed at 14m and up had a tumour afterwards.

This is out of how many that were spayed at that age?

Out of 39.
We've had lots of rats come to us at an older age and we've spayed them all. It was always worth it. In some of the girls, they had the start of uterine tumours, infections and ovary tumours as well, they wouldn't have lasted long if they didn't get their spay.