NEW video of Brenna pg 2 Sunday Aug 12

[Petunia]

this is my girl Brenna who has been treated for resp issues.

Last night her heart was beating very very hard, and she was limp and just wanted to be held (for several hours)
this has happened in the past, but never for this long and never was her heart pounding as bad as it was last night. I didn't think she'd make it thru the night but she did

this is a video of her this morning. GOt a vet appt for this afternoon, but what does this look like to you guys? "just" a resp issue or a heart issue too?
http://youtu.be/pw1e1m_nVLU

heart and lung stuff totally confuse me

she is not able to move around a lot without having to rest, but there's no open mouth breathing and I don't think her extremities are getting cold (not blue for sure)
hard to tell with the A/C on

 

[hopefloats]

It is very difficult to tell between heart and lungs. I look for cold feet and tails. No noise from the lungs I go with heart. I also gauge on any weight loss and so on. The best way to tell is to have her heart listened to my vet said something it is difficult to hear a problem since the rats are nervous in the office and their hearts beat super fast anyway.

 

[SQ]

I try various combos of antibiotics. (Baytril + zithro (10 - 15 mg/Ib, twice a day); baytril + doxy, & in some cases baytril + clavamox)

If none of the antibiotic combos completely heal the problem,
then I test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib, twice a day).
If enalapril helps, then atenolol (1 mg/Ib, twice a day) is added and furosemide is given as needed (beginning dose 1 to 2 mg/Ib, twice a day). All 3 meds are given for the rest of the rattie’s life.

If enalapril helps then an xray is done and if the heart is enlarged, then digoxin ( 0.0025 mg/Ib, twice a day) is added to the above drugs. An xray is done if the other heart meds are helping so you will know if digoxin needs to be added. (Not all heart problems can be seen on an xray.)

Rats with heart problems may also have noisy lungs, and heart problems might not make the heart sound differently. All heart problems do not show up on xrays.
A rat with heart problems may need antibiotics in addition to the above heart meds.

Good luck

 

[fexpress]

Does her ribcage feel harder than normal?

 

[lilspaz68]

I am waiting for the manager to go out so I can attempt to view the video (only computer enabled is in front of his office )

 

[Petunia]

we'll be leaving for the vets in about an hour

now she's doing the "hanging the head over the edge of the shelf of the cage" and she prefers to be held most of the time, near the A/C where she just rests in the crook of my arm and sleeps, or tries to


still a rapid heart rate but not pounding like last night, and def breathing hard

am hoping to come home with A/Bs and the meds you use to rule out heart problems- the enalapril or benazapril and/or lasix

SQ, is anything other than digoxin use for rats? I was prescribed that for my afib and high heart rate and refused it (and got a second and third opinion, & both cardiologists agreed with me that it wasn't worth the risks/side effects and a third cardiologist who saw me in the ER said the same thing- they don't like to use it any more if they can find a safer alternative. It's been known to cause the very problems it's been used to treat)

I'll let you know how it goes, thanks for all your help

ioh. and I'll start weighing her every day too. she looks a bit bloated to me, but she's looked that way before and it's gone away so she may have had gas from eating something like broccoli...?
do they get bloated like that from gassy foods?

 

[lilspaz68]

They can definitely get gassy from foods.

You could also ask for atenolol, a beta-blocker that helps the sinus rate slow and improves the function of the heart.

 

[Petunia]

They can definitely get gassy from foods.

You could also ask for atenolol, a beta-blocker that helps the sinus rate slow and improves the function of the heart.

thanks, I was pretty sure it was a beta-blocker that would help.

will update a bit later, around 6 or so

 

[EDK]

I hope she pulls through soon

 

[Petunia]

ok really tired so here's a quick run down-
she was nebulized at the vets cuz she looked so bad, given a shot of lasix and then a shot of baytril

sent home wiht baytril, clavamox and two treatments for the nebulizer, borrowed a friend's nebulizer and
um, what else?
got a shot of baytril to give her in the morning in case she's still refusing things by mouth

and then we just pray it all works

 

[SQ]

SQ, is anything other than digoxin use for rats?

The first heart med you give is an ACE inhibitator - enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib, twice a day). If this heart med helps,
then you add second heart med - a beta-blocker - atenolol (1 mg/Ib, twice a day).

and a 3rd med - furosemide is given as needed (begining dose 1 to 2 mg/Ib, twice a day).
All 3 (heart) meds are given for the rest of the rattie’s life.
I have had rats that did well on these 3 meds - it gave them a good quality of life for a long time.
Some of them later developed enlarged hearts.

Digoxin is only given, in addition to the other 3 heart meds, if the rattie has an enlarged heart (as seen on an xray).
Digoxin is not given for heart problems that do not include an enlarged heart - just the other 3 heart meds.
In my experience with rats having enlarged hearts (CHF), all 4 of the heart meds helped, but the digoxin made the largest difference.
Hope this info helps.

================================

I hope she is feeling better tonight and that the meds you were given have her feeling much better very soon.

 

[fexpress]

got a shot of baytril to give her in the morning in case she's still refusing things by mouth

and then we just pray it all works

Isn't Baytril the one you're not supposed to inject in rats? I'm really confused, I know there's something you're not supposed to inject them with because it can cause serious issues. Sorry if I'm making a mistake here, but hopefully someone will chime in quickly and confirm...

 

[Petunia]

got a shot of baytril to give her in the morning in case she's still refusing things by mouth

and then we just pray it all works

Isn't Baytril the one you're not supposed to inject in rats? I'm really confused, I know there's something you're not supposed to inject them with because it can cause serious issues. Sorry if I'm making a mistake here, but hopefully someone will chime in quickly and confirm...

oh dear, I just googled that and you're right, it can burn and cause an ulcer

great!
I'll give her the liquid in the morning, since she's willing to eat now

she's doing a lot better after the nebs and lasix

ETA: apparently it's not as much of a problem if the baytril has been diluted
"Because enrofloxacin may cause skin ulceration at the injection site, when giving SQ, it is recommended to dilute the injectable solution with NaCl or LRS"

she gave her quite a bit, so I am guessing it probably was diluted. I'll call and ask

 

[EDK]

Poor baby girl, hang in there!

 

[Petunia]

my little girl is doing a lot better!
you can still see her breathing hard at times but she is so much better, she got out to play last night and never stopped going........and going............and going!! I tried to get a good video of her but she was running around so much, and the rest of the gang was pretty hyper too, that I kept losing track of her :lol:

I finally got this cute one of her after I put them back in the cage; Owen had power groomed her when they were out, she gets him back in this video:

http://youtu.be/Vy5_IFf1FWY

It cracks me up how long he just lays there afterward with his feet in the air, then slowly rolls up on his butt and goes about his business
(after first spreading his legs and airing out his man bits- er rather, where his man bits used to be)

 

[mamarat]

Really cute video. Brenna must be feeling better, I love a rattie on his back. lol

 

[Petunia]

Update on my girl Brenna with the resp infection: she saw vet last Thurs, got nebulized dex and antibiotics, and was sent home with baytril and clavamox. Five full days of meds later and she's got congestion that I can hear and a rubbing sound in her chest.
she didn't have any sounds that I could hear before, she was breathing hard and her heart was pounding like mad, and her appetite was poor. Now, she has a good appetite, and lots of energy, but she's got sounds in her chest.
The vet said she shouldn't have any sounds now, but didn't suggest changing meds or anything.
what do you think, continue with the baytril/ clavamox, or.........?

 

[jorats]

Have you tried Baytril and Zithromax? And maybe even metacam or prednisone?

 

[Petunia]

Have you tried Baytril and Zithromax? And maybe even metacam or prednisone?

oh I'm sorry, I meant to update this thread :emb:


Brenna had some awful rubbing/squeaking noise when she was breathing for a few days but it went away finally
:joy:

so, we're continuing the baytril and clavamox til it's gone and then, I"m not sure what to do after that.

The vet's instructions say that I can get a refill of the clavamox, but nothing about a refill of the baytril.
I'm not looking forward to trying to sort that out with the vet, they messed up the initial prescription so bad. :gaah:

in the meantime, she's looking a lot better, eating well and playing, and bossing her boyfriend around too
:giggle:

 

[jorats]

Oh that's good news! I was going to say, to hold off and give it a few more days. I'm glad it's worked out!!!