New Rat not "fitting in" (Still!)

[TafDaiJelVio]

Hello, everyone.

I have a bit of a back story on this one, so bare with me. :? I will change the color of the font of the important part if you don't want to read the backstory, however it kind of leads up to what is happening.

I adopted my first 3 girls from a psychology lab on campus, they were X'd to be euthanized over the summer. They were all generally healthy (they were to be put down for colony size control) and warmed up to each other and myself very quickly. They're now very social and friendly.

Recently, the psychology lab was going have the rest of the litter my 3 girls belonged to destroyed because of large tumors growing on them. However, since I work in the lab I decided to play with them before they got put down to give them a last good day. During the time I was playing with them I found one obese girl who was tumor free and generally healthy, so I asked to adopt her and was approved.

Enter, Violet. My chunky girly. She had lived with a partner since she was weaned, and her partner had been euthanized. When I came to pick her up she was acting severely depressed. Since she is blood related to my girls and sterile, I isolated her for 2 days, brought her into my dorm room, then tried to quickly get her into the cage. After 2.5 days she spent her first night in the cage with no problems from the other rats. However, she herself was acting strange. At first she sniffed everything, then she hid in the corner with her face buried in the bedding and didn't move for half an hour. After that point she got in the hammock and laid there all night, unmoving. She refused food this morning, but ate a treat and a few bites when I seperated her from my other girls, and I have yet to see her drink water. AS I typed this post, she has been standing up on her hind legs in the corner of her cage with her nose through the bars completely still while my other three cuddle around her legs. There have been minor dominance scuffles throughout the day, but I break them up if they get too severe... she's just acting strangely depressed and anti-social. These girls are almost two, only two of them had lived together in the lab and the third lives with them just fine. Has Violet been seperated for too long to want to have more friends? I feel terrible for her, please help!

I should also add, they met on neutral ground, I've switched cages with them and I cleaned the main cage before putting violet in. Violet acts JUST FINE alone and with me but as soon as another rat is introduced she becomes terrified.

 

[dspch911]

You have to do introductions slows. Rats forget their cages mates within a day or two when separated. They cannot just be put back into a cage together especially as adults. Maybe this will help. Good job on the rescues :thumbup:

http://ratguide.com/care/behavior/introducing_rats.php

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

For now, I've put Vio back in her own cage and Taffy, Daisy and Jelly back in their own cage. I let them play in her cage for awhile and her in theirs before I did this and now they're both doing their own share of sniffing around, but Violet seems a little bit more active.

My main worry for Violet is because she's so obese and because she's so nervous she's going to receive what I call "the beat down" and won't be able to defend herself well. My alpha, Taffy, isn't forgiving -- especially if she finds food. When I had them together earlier, this happened to Violet because there was apparently a seed on the floor of my room and Violet was sitting on it. But that was the most severe fight I've had thus far.

Other than that, I did mask scents and clean everything before allowing her in their home. It's just the fact that she "freezes" that concerns me.

 

[dspch911]

You need to start on neutral territory where there is nothing that belongs to either and a place with nothing in it. A bathtub or table top - then after a few days if things are going well introduce a toy. Always have a towel, oven mitt, or something on hand that you can toss over them if they start to fight too much as a distraction and to get them apart. Rule of thumb - no blood/no fowl. Some fights sound worse than they are. I've learned from experience. Size doesn't matter also learned from experience. Some people have a quick easy time with intros and some take longer.

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

Alright, I'll try starting over with them. Thank you for your help.

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

Hello again, everyone.

I've spent the week introducing my girls to my newbie. I've done evertything from cleaning the cage and bathing everyone, to putting them in a neutral cage, etc. My established colony does not mind my newbie. However, my newbie is still fearful of them.

She freezes, climbs the bars of the cage and hangs there for long stretches of time, refuses to eat, and urinates everywhere every time she sees them. She has not spent a full night with them since the first night I tried them together. I don't understand why she is so afraid! She had a cage partner in the lab...

I should also add that she does this whether she's in her own territory, neutral territory or their territory. It doesn't matter where, she still exhibits freezing behavior. Even the lab professor is stumped at what is wrong with her.

 

[Aida]

Hmm. Are the other girls "attacking" her, or is she just scared for no reason?

If she is simply scared and not getting hurt, at this point I would just keep her in there for the night. Maybe the stress of constantly removing and replacing her is ust feeding the problem, and she needs to toughen out the few days. If she refuses to eat with them nearby, you can take her out for feeding. If you are scared htat she isn't drinking, do a skin pinch test for dehydration or mix water with some natural fruit juice to see if she will be more interested in that.

Pinch test: gently pinch the skin on the back of her neck(it is a large amount of loose skin, much like a cat has) and pull it up; let go. If a rat is dehydrated, this will take a while to drop down instead of quickly snapping back to it's normal state.

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

My alpha girl shoves her over occasionally but that's all that really happens, it's just Taffy reminding everyone that she's in charge, but she's only received one scratch over the course of several meetings. However, when Taffy pushes her down, she lays there for almost 10 minutes on her back.

I have my omega girl in a neutral cage with her right now, but she's just laying in the corner while my omega girl eats all the food. If the omega comes near her, she lays on her back and whines (I know this is a display of submission but it seems very VERY excessive).

I thought of waiting until I got home on Monday and putting them all in my extra cage, but if they're not at least tolerant of one another by Monday, I'm not sure how I'm going to get them home.

 

[Aida]

My Matilda was EXTREMELY scared of Charlotte upon first introductions. She would scream, not just squeak, but SCREAM everytime. Upon closer inspection, i realize that she started doing this from Charlotte only sniffing her, not even pouncing or fighting. In the end, I just forced them to spend time together and she stopped.

 

[jorats]

I'd get her vet checked. The standing up, nose upwards, rats do that when in respiratory distress, which would explain her behaviour in each different settings.
If she's absolutely healthy, then I say put her back with the colony, give her at least 2 weeks to settle in.

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

She is absolutely healthy except she's a little chubby and has the beginnings of a mammary tumor on her underarm and a small zit on the heel of her foot, all of these conditions are being treated.. Beyond that, there is no RD or otherwise pain. She is currently in the cage with my other females and has been standing upright in the corner since I put her in 1.5hrs ago. Hopefully she'll settle down soon

 

[Aida]

Hopefully she'll stop eventually. Just make sure she is getting food and water....

 

[TafDaiJelVio]

I actually think I found a way to change it up a little that might help!

I put her in a travel carrier/hospital cage on the second floor of the cage with food and water (It's a decent sized carrier, I can fit all my girls in it + food and water comfortably for the long car ride home). They can still see and touch her, and she can still see and touch them but by being separated, she is opening up and grooming herself and eating a little. Hopefully if I do this for awhile and play with her a LOT during the day so she gets to stretch her legs she'll be bonded with them sooner rather than later.

 

[Aida]

Aww, that is a good idea.