jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
We need to get those boys some TSN. (the sport's network)
Neutered rat behaviour
- Thread starter Bronwyn
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Bronwyn
Well-Known Member
As a bit of a tangent, I do love watching Atticus and Jo (when they're not doing that...). She instantaneously loved him, really love at first sight, it seemed, assuming rats can feel love. No one gave him much trouble, but when she met him she covered him in kisses. Now they're always together, curled up and grooming one another. I just watched Atticus box with Ginny who corned him (Ginny's my brat) and Jo leaped in between them and just sat like a lump, trying to gently interfere. Then she shoved Ginny away from him so she protects him too. I wish there wasn't such an age gap. Though she's only a year and two months I worry about what he'll go through when she dies if they stay this bonded.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about that at this point at all. She might live a really long time, and rats do deal pretty well with deaths of cagemates and new friends added in. They are like people, friendships can change or not...time will tell 
Bronwyn
Well-Known Member
I just think of Elphie dying only three weeks after Brie and being in seemingly perfect health other than a slightly stiffening back end.
So it seems Jo's fine! On Thursday she weighed in a 300 g and today she's 303 g so I'm guessing she's okay. Her sister, Ginny, on the other hand was 303 g and is now 316 g. Is it normal to have a weight jump like that after about four days?
So it seems Jo's fine! On Thursday she weighed in a 300 g and today she's 303 g so I'm guessing she's okay. Her sister, Ginny, on the other hand was 303 g and is now 316 g. Is it normal to have a weight jump like that after about four days?
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I remember when my Bijou moved in with Mister... that was pure love, on Mister's part.
We'll need lots of Atticus and Jo pics. :joy:
We'll need lots of Atticus and Jo pics. :joy:
ryelle
Well-Known Member
While people are discussing neutered rats, i have a question to ask (might sound completely stupid)...
Would neutering a rat make a difference to the urine smell? Like would it make it weaker or wouldn't it make any difference? My Patrick STINKS and i've never smelt a rat as bad as him - it's only his urine though and its awful. I think diet can play a part in the smell aswell can't it?
Would neutering a rat make a difference to the urine smell? Like would it make it weaker or wouldn't it make any difference? My Patrick STINKS and i've never smelt a rat as bad as him - it's only his urine though and its awful. I think diet can play a part in the smell aswell can't it?
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I can't see why it would affect the urine. But it may be his musky smell you are smelling. Males, coming into maturity and being hormonal have a strong scent. A neuter may or may not take away that smell.
Bronwyn
Well-Known Member
lilspaz68 said:
This is still irritating me so I'd like to make myself clear. "The vet," as you continue to refer to him, is my father, which you were well aware. No, he is not an exotic vet but he is still well respected for his work. Neuters are not exactly rocket science and he is capable of counting to two. The fact that he is my father alone should beg some form of sensitivity and I would have appreciated some faith if not in him, then in my own ability to discern whether or not there were remaining testes as the thread/photos you linked as examples of poor surgery were quite obviously incorrect. I haven't the faintest idea why the owners accepted their rats from the clinics in that state. As I've since learned after posting this thread, Atticus is exhibiting rather normal behaviour for a recently neutered male rat and my father continues to have a perfect record in his care for my rats. In the future I'd appreciate a more sensitive approach to issues concerning surgeries/treatments performed by my father if you choose to contribute to the thread. You have your right to your opinion but how you choose to present it is up to you.
Thanks!
Moon
Well-Known Member
Bronwyn, she was referring to the vet in the goosemoose thread, not your father! Clearly your dad did a great job!
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Bronwyn... it was evident Shelagh meant the other vet from Goosemoose.
We all know your father has been doing a great job with your rats.
We all know your father has been doing a great job with your rats.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Bronwyn, I WAS referring to the vet on Goosemoose. Your dad obviously did a good job, I have no doubt, (he researched, we all know that), and even Anne said it was a beautiful sight afterwards and I am sure your post was just about regular worries about the neuter, but did I even mention your father? If you have a problem with me take it to PM's please.
Damn I did NOT need this, this morning, I am raw after losing Max.
Damn I did NOT need this, this morning, I am raw after losing Max.
Cityratt
Well-Known Member
Hey Shel,
Sorry to hear about little Max, atleast the poor ol'guy passed on knowing he had a lil lady rat to dote upon him....
I just caught up on this thread this morning also, and, as much as this may be in no way, my business I just want to throw something out there...
Especially since Bron may or may not be around the fourm (I dont know)
I dont think, that it was an intentional attempt to "pick a fight" I think, IMO, that it was an easy enough mistake to make as the sentence in question was relatively open-ended, and especially since it was potentially a family member's reputation and credibility at stake - emotions run high. And I think that once that potential notion sets in, its difficult to quell, at least i know its hard for me to...
Should someone even potentially "dis" my family, my hackles go up and so help me - i become a bear, have i mistaken statements? yes.
And if I thought someone was questioning a family member or close friend, I would have reacted in exactly the same way.
The internet is difficult especially non-live, text-based conversations, because they are left to the readers interpretation.
were statements better left to PM? potentially - but again, atleast in my own experience, when your feelings have been seemingly sidestepped - reason tends to slide...
at any rate, I dont want to speak for Bronwyn, and im sure she'll be around at some point....I can just never miss an opportunity to play devils advocate....
Sorry to hear about little Max, atleast the poor ol'guy passed on knowing he had a lil lady rat to dote upon him....
I just caught up on this thread this morning also, and, as much as this may be in no way, my business I just want to throw something out there...
Especially since Bron may or may not be around the fourm (I dont know)
I dont think, that it was an intentional attempt to "pick a fight" I think, IMO, that it was an easy enough mistake to make as the sentence in question was relatively open-ended, and especially since it was potentially a family member's reputation and credibility at stake - emotions run high. And I think that once that potential notion sets in, its difficult to quell, at least i know its hard for me to...
Should someone even potentially "dis" my family, my hackles go up and so help me - i become a bear, have i mistaken statements? yes.
And if I thought someone was questioning a family member or close friend, I would have reacted in exactly the same way.
The internet is difficult especially non-live, text-based conversations, because they are left to the readers interpretation.
were statements better left to PM? potentially - but again, atleast in my own experience, when your feelings have been seemingly sidestepped - reason tends to slide...
at any rate, I dont want to speak for Bronwyn, and im sure she'll be around at some point....I can just never miss an opportunity to play devils advocate....
Bronwyn
Well-Known Member
Thanks Anne, it's true I'm not really in touch with the forum anymore so thank you for suggesting this on my behalf in case I didn't check back.
Indeed, I was not intending to pick a fight. That's simply not in my nature and I think a few years of being on rat forums with many of you would back that up. I'm well aware that more often than not, the vet shoulders a lot of blame here and in this case since the vet is my father I of course felt the need to say something, particularly since the worried rat mother here was taught that neutered rats can certainly still act like intact males when it comes to their sexual drive, and therefore little Jo is just fine, as is the patient. Personally I felt the reference to "the vet" was open ended which is why I interpreted it as I did, but since I was mistaken in that you were referring to another vet (who may or may not have performed good surgery, no one knows for sure) I apologize for my misinterpretation. I feel like one of the very few here who holds veterinarians in high regard so I feel inclined to defend them anyway, but as Anne pointed out, with a family member in question I needed to say something.
Indeed, I was not intending to pick a fight. That's simply not in my nature and I think a few years of being on rat forums with many of you would back that up. I'm well aware that more often than not, the vet shoulders a lot of blame here and in this case since the vet is my father I of course felt the need to say something, particularly since the worried rat mother here was taught that neutered rats can certainly still act like intact males when it comes to their sexual drive, and therefore little Jo is just fine, as is the patient. Personally I felt the reference to "the vet" was open ended which is why I interpreted it as I did, but since I was mistaken in that you were referring to another vet (who may or may not have performed good surgery, no one knows for sure) I apologize for my misinterpretation. I feel like one of the very few here who holds veterinarians in high regard so I feel inclined to defend them anyway, but as Anne pointed out, with a family member in question I needed to say something.
ryelle
Well-Known Member
jorats said:
Ah ok. I didn't know if the level of testosterone in a male rat would affect the smell or concentration of the urine (if that makes sense) - and if the testosterone was minimised by neutering, if it would decrease the smell. I was just curious
I could quote all of the conversation that happened prior to and after Shelagh's comment, but you can read the posts for yourself. I'll just quote what I feel is blatantly pertinent.
I'm sorry, but I really am not seeing how that could have been in any way misconstrued as Shelagh talking about Bron's father. If Bron went to such lengths as to ask her father if he did in fact remove both testicles or "forgot" and do, and I quote, "something idiotic like that," and posted as much, why would Shelagh even suggest that Bron's father had done "something idiotic like that"? Also, Bron's comment about how Shelagh is bashing her father's veterinary skill came 5 days after Shelagh's comment, to which Bron herself replied a few times without any hint of hostility. As a matter of fact, it would appear that Bron understood perfectly that Shelagh was speaking about the vet on Goosemoose in all of those responses.
Considering that Shelagh's first statement was reassuring Bron that she does intro's 2 weeks post neuter with no issues and then followed by saying to read how unlikely everyone on the other forum felt this post neuter pregnancy was, Bron's comments against Shelagh are arbitrary at best. Which, in my opinion, is more than enough reason for Shelagh to request that if Bron has an issue with her, to take it to PM's and not make comments like that on the boards. Considering that no one else can even see how the comments could have been mistaken that way, it's quite obviously *not* that way.
As for you, Bron, being one of the few to hold vets in general in high regard, I doubt that. I'm glad that you're proud of your father being a vet and that you trust his medical advice, but that hardly puts you on a different playing field from the rest of us. I respect veterinarians very much. I'm sure there are dozens of people on this board alone who admire and respect their vets, as well as others. I will not, however, credit a vet who can somehow perform a neuter that ends with an impregnated female supposedly 8 weeks after the procedure. I will not credit the vets that performed neuters on the rats of the people who told this person they had experienced pregnancies after 3+ weeks all the time. I will also not credit a vet who refuses to listen to the information that's readily available to all of us and ends with a rat suffering needlessly or dying. The vet I took my first girls to told me they were just rats and weren't going to live long anyhow, so why even bother treating them. Should I admire and respect him for his blatant disregard for an entire species? Certainly not. Sure, he went to veterinary school, and he gets kudos for having completed. That does not automatically mean he deserves my respect.
Bronwyn said:
lilspaz68 said:
I'm sorry, but I really am not seeing how that could have been in any way misconstrued as Shelagh talking about Bron's father. If Bron went to such lengths as to ask her father if he did in fact remove both testicles or "forgot" and do, and I quote, "something idiotic like that," and posted as much, why would Shelagh even suggest that Bron's father had done "something idiotic like that"? Also, Bron's comment about how Shelagh is bashing her father's veterinary skill came 5 days after Shelagh's comment, to which Bron herself replied a few times without any hint of hostility. As a matter of fact, it would appear that Bron understood perfectly that Shelagh was speaking about the vet on Goosemoose in all of those responses.
Considering that Shelagh's first statement was reassuring Bron that she does intro's 2 weeks post neuter with no issues and then followed by saying to read how unlikely everyone on the other forum felt this post neuter pregnancy was, Bron's comments against Shelagh are arbitrary at best. Which, in my opinion, is more than enough reason for Shelagh to request that if Bron has an issue with her, to take it to PM's and not make comments like that on the boards. Considering that no one else can even see how the comments could have been mistaken that way, it's quite obviously *not* that way.
As for you, Bron, being one of the few to hold vets in general in high regard, I doubt that. I'm glad that you're proud of your father being a vet and that you trust his medical advice, but that hardly puts you on a different playing field from the rest of us. I respect veterinarians very much. I'm sure there are dozens of people on this board alone who admire and respect their vets, as well as others. I will not, however, credit a vet who can somehow perform a neuter that ends with an impregnated female supposedly 8 weeks after the procedure. I will not credit the vets that performed neuters on the rats of the people who told this person they had experienced pregnancies after 3+ weeks all the time. I will also not credit a vet who refuses to listen to the information that's readily available to all of us and ends with a rat suffering needlessly or dying. The vet I took my first girls to told me they were just rats and weren't going to live long anyhow, so why even bother treating them. Should I admire and respect him for his blatant disregard for an entire species? Certainly not. Sure, he went to veterinary school, and he gets kudos for having completed. That does not automatically mean he deserves my respect.
ryelle said:jorats said:
Ah ok. I didn't know if the level of testosterone in a male rat would affect the smell or concentration of the urine (if that makes sense) - and if the testosterone was minimised by neutering, if it would decrease the smell. I was just curious
I think that you mean them marking, not necessarily their urine in general? Marking, if I'm remembering correctly, is different from general urine. More concentrated and thus more smelly. There are still males [and females..] who continue to mark after the surgery, but most people do notice that their males aren't as "stinky" after the surgery more often than not.
ryelle
Well-Known Member
javakittie said:ryelle said:jorats said:
Ah ok. I didn't know if the level of testosterone in a male rat would affect the smell or concentration of the urine (if that makes sense) - and if the testosterone was minimised by neutering, if it would decrease the smell. I was just curious
I think that you mean them marking, not necessarily their urine in general? Marking, if I'm remembering correctly, is different from general urine. More concentrated and thus more smelly. There are still males [and females..] who continue to mark after the surgery, but most people do notice that their males aren't as "stinky" after the surgery more often than not.
His marking i don't mind, it's his actual urine that stinks. If he pee's out of the litter tray onto the shelves you can smell it immediately, even if your across the room. He normally kicks the litter out the litter trays around the cage aswell and if theres nothing to soak it up... :sick2:
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
This was obviously a huge misunderstanding.
There is history there with Bron and her dad and some of us on another forum, so in a way, I can see her emotions being raw on this issue. We've all been guilty of jumping the gun and not reading the post correctly.
We know Shelagh had the best of intentions when writing her post to Bron, and hopefully Bron sees this now.
I don't think we should analyze who said what, please bring it to PMs should the matter not be resolved.
This thread is about neutered boys acting like intact boys.
There is history there with Bron and her dad and some of us on another forum, so in a way, I can see her emotions being raw on this issue. We've all been guilty of jumping the gun and not reading the post correctly.
We know Shelagh had the best of intentions when writing her post to Bron, and hopefully Bron sees this now.
I don't think we should analyze who said what, please bring it to PMs should the matter not be resolved.
This thread is about neutered boys acting like intact boys.
