Need advice on my rat's lung mass

[jiffystiffy]

I haven't posted at this site for a while mostly because of the lack of questions and time. Apologies for my long story. I like explaining things.

My rat, Ratacus, who is about 2 years old has a mass growing in his right lung. I found this out when he was lifeless and weak this past Saturday. I immediately scheduled a vet appointment at a regular vet but due to my impatient nature, I ended up going to an emergency clinic that I had good experience with.

The vet x-rayed him and said there's a tumor in his right lung that is either from another part of the body (aka the tumor is spreading) and/or it's lung cancer. Either way, eventually his lung will fill up and/or an organ of his body will fail. We've established that without further treatment, it's terminal.

With my rat being the age he is (not exactly young anymore), I decided not the go through with further treatment (chemo, surgery, etc). The vet agreed that it wouldn't provide a better quality of life for him. Going through further treatment means that he'd spend the rest of his life trying to recover from treatments instead of being comfortable. All signs from the x-rays and symptoms points to cancer.

So he is now on prednisone twice daily for as long as he's alive. I read a little bit about prednisone. It's basically a steroid from what I understand. The doctor said he can live from anywhere from a few days to a week to a couple weeks. There's no definite saying.

Ratacus has perked up a lot after coming home later Saturday night. They gave him a corticosteroid shot and offered me narcotic pain meds but I declined and said I'll call them if he needs it later. He was running around yesterday and was up beat. He ate a bunch of Nutri-cal to re-gain the weight he lost. I don't want to let on that I'm letting him be miserable. With medication and stuff, he's actually eating and playing and running around. If he came to the point where he's nothing but tired and weak, I would PTS him.

So! Now, if anyone can give me further advice - such as if I should have gone with treatment and I should call my vet up right now and say I changed my mind - that would be helpful. I never dealt with animals and cancer before. And though there is an off chance that it could just be a benign tumor, I'm nervous about rat lung surgery to remove it. So please, advice, honesty, and all would be appreciated.

 

[Rattus]

Aww your poor rattie :cuddle: Im so sorry to hear. Im happy that he is atleast 2 years old.. it is a decent ripe age but they can of course live much longer. If the doctors are telling you theres no certainty he will get over this and that he will most likely be more annoyed with the treatment then anything I would have done the same as you. Just let him live out the rest of his remaining days or weeks happy and on his prednisone Give him lots of love and yummy treats lol. Did the doctor say his condition could be painful? is that why they offered pain meds? Is he breathing fast or sucking in a lot? If theres a mass in his lungs maybe it hurts for him to breathe a little.. if you notice him getting uncomfortable at all I would then highly recommend getting the pain meds

 

[jiffystiffy]

Thank you for the support in my choice.

The doctor didn't say anything about it being painful for him but he did mention that a side effect of the pain meds is that it can suppress breathing which really doesn't solve anything in this case. As for Ratacus, he doesn't look like he's in pain. He's better than he has been in several days so pain isn't the first thing I think he's in.

 

My boy Oscar (25 months old) has a tumor in his chest and sounds just like your boy. He is also on a very high does of pred once a day + baytril twice a day. His thread is here if your interested in reading: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=25147

He is now on day 12 of meds.

 

[lilspaz68]

The prednisone will help shrink the tissue of the tumour or any inflamed lung tissue making things easier for awhile.

 

[temblabamomo]

I'd say you're doing everything right for your boy. I hope the steroids continue to help and you guys have more quality time together. That he is eating and playing again is very encouraging.

 

[jiffystiffy]

My boy Oscar (25 months old) has a tumor in his chest and sounds just like your boy. He is also on a very high does of pred once a day + baytril twice a day. His thread is here if your interested in reading: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=25147

He is now on day 12 of meds.

Thanks for this. I will be reading through this just to get a better understanding.

And thanks everyone for the support (more is still welcome!). Even though I know I probably made the right choice, it's always good to hear that others would have done the same. So all your words are very much appreciated.

 

[SQ]

Predisone is likely what my vet would prescribe too.
Like Lilspaz68 said, it may help.
If he isn't on an antibiotic (sorry if you mentioned this as I didn't see anything), he needs to be on one as pred will surpress the immune system

 

[Godmother]

I think that you are making the right decision. Chemo is a nasty treatment -- OK for humans, who understand why they are going through it, but probably terrible for an animal. I hope that you have some good time left together. You might want to have the pain meds on hand in case he suddenly gets bad, unless you have easy access to after-hour vet clinics who will do humane euthanasia.

 

[jiffystiffy]

I think that you are making the right decision. Chemo is a nasty treatment -- OK for humans, who understand why they are going through it, but probably terrible for an animal. I hope that you have some good time left together. You might want to have the pain meds on hand in case he suddenly gets bad, unless you have easy access to after-hour vet clinics who will do humane euthanasia.

Yea, I know a person that is going through chemo for the second time fighting breast cancer. It's no fun even for people so I don't imagine so for a rat either.

The emergency clinic I went to has a vet (usually 2) there at all hours of the day and night and they're open 24 hours a day. Emergencies are pretty much all they do and to go there otherwise, you'd need a referral from another vet. I had a rat put to sleep probably about a year ago. The clinic was awesome about handling it. I even got a "sorry about your loss" card in the mail a few days later with all the vets and vet techs signatures and notes on it. It was really sweet.

They always seem to welcome me every time I call in and I only live 10-15 mins away. I can get pain meds if I need it but I don't want to pay for it if I don't need it. Plus, if it came to needing pain medicine everyday, I'd probably put him to sleep. Knowing what he has will kill him eventually, I'm not one to drag things out for my own sake. I'll end it when the times comes. But I'm hoping his positive progress continues.

 

You deffently did the right thing ..but one question isnt pred a once a day med?

Also you should have him on an antibiotic since pred decreases the immune system.

I hope my thread gives you some help

 

[jiffystiffy]

You deffently did the right thing ..but one question isnt pred a once a day med?

Also you should have him on an antibiotic since pred decreases the immune system.

I hope my thread gives you some help

The dosage for prednisone is 0.25 mg/lb to 1 mg/lb orally once a day or you can make 2 smaller doses if it's mixed as an oral solution of 1mg/1 mL then give 0.25mL/lb to 1 mL/lb every 12 hours. (http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php)

I'll look into the antibiotics though. I have some at home in case of emergencies. However, I'll need to talk to my vet about which one to use because I worry about drug interaction.

 

[SQ]

many vets prescribe pred + baytril ....
Rats can be given up to 1 mg/Ib of pred twice a day and baytril twice a day (med dosages in accordance with the Rat Health Care book)

 

[mamarat]

I agree with everyone, you did the right thing. Sending good vibes to your sweetie.

 

[Moon]

Pulmonary abscesses and masses happen more often than they should. You could buy more time with the steroids than you think. I absolutely agree with your decision, a surgery or excessive treatment at this age can sometimes more harm than good.

 

[jiffystiffy]

Pulmonary abscesses and masses happen more often than they should. You could buy more time with the steroids than you think. I absolutely agree with your decision, a surgery or excessive treatment at this age can sometimes more harm than good.

I agree completely. His energy levels went down dramatically last night. I spent a good three hours laying with him last night on the couch. The size of his mass nearly takes up his entire right lung so I know either way, he doesn't have too much longer.

Doesn't make it any easier to accept that the medicine is just buying him time and not making him better. It's really the first time in my life I had to just sit by and watch without being able to help. It really sucks.

Thank you again everyone for your kind words, advice and support. It's very much appreciated. :heart: I love this rat so much.

 

[xKrAzEdShOoTeRx]

my advice would be to let him live the life he is offering and enjoy it while you have him

 

[jiffystiffy]

Just wanted to update this thread.

I put Ratacus to sleep yesterday. He was refusing his medicine to the point yesterday, where I forced it upon him. I felt so guilty and bad. His body was tiny and frail. He was the definition of skin and bones. He couldn't even muster enough energy to jump up onto the couch. He didn't move much. It was just time.

While I'm quite heartbroken losing my first rat, I'm more heartbroken for my other rat Splinter. We took them both to the vet because I knew the right thing to do was for Splinter to know what happened and to be able to grieve a death instead of wonder where his buddy went.

I've never see a rat grieve.

But it broke my heart watching. I asked the vet to bring Ratacus back into the exam room so that Splinter can say goodbye. They laid him down on the table wrapped up and then left us alone. I unwrapped it and put Splinter next to Ratacus. He went up, sniffed at him, licked his face a little, and then laid on top of Ratacus looking distant and sad. I tried to pull him away and comfort him but he just went right back to the body and laid near it like he was going to guard it. We sat there for a good 10 minutes before we left. Splinter shedding rat tears while me and my boyfriend shedded our own tears. I wasn't able to let Splinter detach himself from Ratacus on his own time because we were having Ratacus cremated.

The rest of the night, Splinter had the roam of the apartment. I would pick him up every time he was just standing still staring. We let him eat a whole Reese's peanut butter cup. He's all alone but he seemed distracted enough being able to play outside his cage. This morning, he kept pacing in his cage from his litterbox to his bed to the door to the litterbox. He just seemed a little lost with no one to cuddle and sleep with.

Ratacus was my first rat and a very sweet one at that. Hopefully, he's having fun at the rainbow bridge and that he's well and happy again. I know one day, the two boys will be reunited at last.

 

[lilspaz68]

You gave your Ratacus almost 3 more months...

The grieving and terrible sadness that follows showing a cagemate/brother/sister the body afterwards is something I don't do anymore. I find that rats are less likely to grieve as strongly if they aren't shown the body. They still may have a day or so of quieter moments but not the full out week or so that I have seen in the past. I beleive rats are very empathic and they know when another rat is not doing well, may not recover or is dying. They know before we do.

((hugs)) for both of your loss.

 

[jiffystiffy]

Thanks. I went back and looked at pictures of the healthy Ratacus who was plump and energetic and chased Splinter from couch to couch. It relieved some of the guilt I felt PTSing him because I know the boy that died yesterday wasn't the same happy boy I saw in pictures. I even have a video of Ratacus licking my hand and running around on the couch with Splinter.

Perhaps this is a pathetic way of justifying euthanasia.

I don't know if I would let my rat grieve again. I've been torn up about watching. For sure. It was heart breaking. I don't want to be selfish and just take their buddies away though. The bond between them was definitely stronger than any bond I have with either. It's like someone with cancer. Just because you know they're dying doesn't mean you don't want to be able to say goodbye. And it doesn't mean that you want someone to not tell you when they are dead. Since I do know someone with cancer, I put myself in the shoes of my rat and even with lacking a rat brain, I still feel like it was the right thing to do.

Splinter will be okay, I think. He needs my company more than ever but he's still himself. After we left the hospital, he was back to his own self again except when he entered his cage that he used to share with Ratacus.

After Splinter, I probably won't adopt anymore rats. It's just too hard sometimes. Their life is too short and there's too many things to make it even shorter.