my colony- update, back from the vet

[handmeafish]

Things here have not been good lately.

Seamus has always been a crier, so when Harry has asserted his dominance in the past I didn't worry. Recently things got worse. I noticed both boys had bite wounds, there were old and healing, but I decided to separate them for the time being. I intro'ed Seamus to Oliver, who is very submissive, because I thought Seamus was probably the problem child. He's always been a fight starter. I put Harry in with Collin, and Cedric. Collin is a bully, always has been, but he's never really hurt any one, usually if they push back he runs away. Today when I got home from class, I noticed that Harry's face is all torn up. I put Collin in time out, even tho it was probably too late, but I didn't know what else to do. Cedric is submissive like Oliver, so I don't think they are the problem. They've been snuggling most of the afternoon.

I don't know who the real problem between Harry and Seamus is now. Seamus has been fine with Oliver, like usual, he's screaming while being groomed, but he's always been that way. I don't want to put him through a neuter if its not necessary. The fights started when I got Harry... so I'm really thinking maybe Harry is the problem.

I don't want Collin to have to be alone for too long, but I don't know what else to do. He was keeping harry out of the hammocks, and away from the main food dish this morning, but I thought they were most likely just figuring things out for them selfs. (When he started guarding food I starting putting food in different places in the cage)

 

[jorats]

Where was Harry cut up, on his nose? If he's cut up on his nose, then he's the one instigating. He's the one going near the "cuter" and the cuter is probably keeping his mouth open as a warning sign that he's not happy with him being so near. If Harry doesn't back down, he gets a strike on the nose. If he's cut up on the face other than the nose, then we don't know who's starting it, they were probably in a rat ball.
But... this is normal and not really a reason to separate. All colonies with males will go through periodic scuffling and rat balls. It's normal...they are boys. I've even seen girls do this.
Unless you are seeing straight out attacks, lunges, deep gashes and cuts aimed at the stomach and scrotum then it's probably not serious. You time out the bully when you catch him in the act.
Also, if you are hearing and seeing screaming, scuffling every single day, multiple times a day, then it's time to reassess the cage and possibly think about doing some neuters.

 

[handmeafish]

Thank you so much jo! You described exactly what I thought was Collin bullying Harry. Yes the cuts are on his nose, and what was happening is he would sit in the hammock, and Harry would approach, and Collin would stand up and open is mouth and follow him around... If he was sending Harry a clear signal to stay away and he wasn't listening, then yeah, I can see why Harry got bit.
I have been planning on neutering Collin for a while now. But now I'm not really sure if he's just saying "please stay away from me" or really guarding the main food dish. It sits on a top shelf, away from everything else (my hope was to keep the poo out of it)
So then Harry was probably the instigator in the scuffles with Seamus too. He is truly a cry baby tho, he squeaks sometimes even when I pet him, he always has, and the vet has even done X-rays and we can't figure out any medical reason for it... and he shows no other signs of pain.

So, since I have finally found a vet who will do neuters for a reasonable price (with out silly talk of blood tests) should I put Harry and Collin on the list?

 

[jorats]

How old are both boys?
I've had "talkers" before, they squeak for no apparent reason, even with petting.
If you can afford it and your vet is rat knowledgable, then I'd get both done. If you can't do both, I'd get Harry done for sure.

 

[handmeafish]

I think Collin is about 7 months, I adopted him, and my guess was he was about 3months when I got him (and already a pappa to 45 babies!)
I was told harry was about a year old when I got him from someone on Craig's List, probably 9 months ago. He's been in pretty good health, I've only had him on abs once.
Hopefully I will be able to get them both done, but I will probably start with harry and go from there.

 

[jorats]

Mmm... So Harry is almost two? And Collin is at the right age to become alpha. He might be the one to do I would think, going by age. Watch them closely again and go by what you see.

 

[handmeafish]

So Collin first? Do you think Harry is too old?

 

[jorats]

I would do the young buck first and see if that helps. It could be that Collin is sending off vibes that Harry doesn't like so he thinks he needs to reign him in.

 

[hopefloats]

Yes. Mr Lefty was a screaming nervous wreck. he was neutered and he is much better. I have noticed that the screamer or the nervous one, will have one boy that is trying to straighten him up. It isnt that the one doing the punishing is bad but the other is so unstable. They keep trying to make the one freaking out be pinned and that just makes the other freak out more.

Romeo is doing that now, and flynn is the hallway monitor!

 

[handmeafish]

Harry has bite wounds further back on his head now, and on one ear. I'm not seeing fights, or issues when i'm here. Should I separate when I can't supervise?

What should I do to treat the wounds? so far i've left the nose ones alone, but this one is further back, i'm worried about abscess.

 

[jorats]

You could flush it with water and salt. Wound abscesses really aren't that common. I wouldn't separate yet.

 

[handmeafish]

So, Saturday I looked at Harry's wound, and it looked so much worse than before. I scheduled an apt for this morning, because my vet wasn't in this weekend.
They shaved it down, and it looks so much worse than i thought.
here is a pic
[spoiler:uxl8w8bt]

[/spoiler:uxl8w8bt]
So, since he was also developing URI symptoms, he is now on both baytril and doxy, chlorahexidrine "scrub" and silver sulfameth ointment to help the wound close, with out pulling his eyes together. He hasn't shown any signs of pain, so thats good. He is not a fan of the cleaning and ointment, but I wouldn't be either.
Collin will hopefully get neutered soon, but today's trip took a chunk out of my vet fund for sure.

 

[jorats]

That looks like he had an abscess and the scab has fallen off. It's healing. Keep it clean and it will soon close. Rats heal from abscesses usually quite fast and the abs will surely help speed it up even more.
Lots of kisses for sweet Harry.

 

[mamarat]

Poor sweetie. Sending healing vibes.

 

[Zooy]

Poor guy, sending healing vibes!

 

[handmeafish]

I didn't see anything that looked like an abscess before i noticed the wound. It was not originally red like that, it's become sort of scabby.
Has anyone used chloraheximine? It seems easy to use, and smells good... My vet gave me a whole bottle and said it should last for years.