Godmother
Well-Known Member
I hardly dare hope..... but I am anyway!!!
Melissa WAS sick...look at her now!
- Thread starter Godmother
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SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
:001:
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
David has lung sounds that haven't cleared up tho he had been on baytril + zithro for months. Trying him on baytril + doxy for almost a week but still the same ... vet thinks he may need to be maintained on baytril ... David is a half brother to Fred, Archie, Kyrie, and Melissa.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Great news for Melissa!!
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Our poor ratties...bad genetics...good example of why not to breed indiscriminately. 
Kyrie comes off the zithro soon, but I will continue her on baytril, probably for the rest of her life.
They are lovely lovely friendly rats, so sad that they all have health issues. Except for Vanessa's crew, I think they are doing pretty well?
Kyrie comes off the zithro soon, but I will continue her on baytril, probably for the rest of her life.
They are lovely lovely friendly rats, so sad that they all have health issues. Except for Vanessa's crew, I think they are doing pretty well?
LA
Well-Known Member
lilspaz68 said:
ARG!!!!
YAY for Melissa I'm so happy for both of you.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
The four boys aren't doing well?
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
SQ said:
The four boys aren't doing well?
From what I understand they are healthy. :thumbup:
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Important info for those of you who have ratties related to my Melissa:
She had her X-ray this afternoon. the problem seems to be a combo of heart and lung problems. her lungs are less clear than Tia's, and her heart is enlarged.
My vet said that rats have large hearts for their body size anyway, and that Melissa's isn't grossly enlarged. But it is enlarged. He figured that Melissa's dramatic improvement wrt lethargy was a sign that the heart problem predominates. he didn't think that she'd have improved so fast on the Baytril/Lasix if it were pneumonia.
Melissa was almost limp the other night, not interested in food or water, and by last night she'd started going up and down in the cage and eating with her usual gusto.
So she'll get Fortekor, Baytril for life, and Lasix. Once her breathing is no longer audible we'll be able to reduce the Lasix.
Melissa has been treated for several courses of abs for respiratory problems, like many of her sibs and her dad and her half-brother. Maybe all of those ratties have a cardiac problem also.
She had her X-ray this afternoon. the problem seems to be a combo of heart and lung problems. her lungs are less clear than Tia's, and her heart is enlarged.
My vet said that rats have large hearts for their body size anyway, and that Melissa's isn't grossly enlarged. But it is enlarged. He figured that Melissa's dramatic improvement wrt lethargy was a sign that the heart problem predominates. he didn't think that she'd have improved so fast on the Baytril/Lasix if it were pneumonia.
Melissa was almost limp the other night, not interested in food or water, and by last night she'd started going up and down in the cage and eating with her usual gusto.
So she'll get Fortekor, Baytril for life, and Lasix. Once her breathing is no longer audible we'll be able to reduce the Lasix.
Melissa has been treated for several courses of abs for respiratory problems, like many of her sibs and her dad and her half-brother. Maybe all of those ratties have a cardiac problem also.
Riana
Well-Known Member
I'm really glad to hear you figured out what was going on with your little girl... I don't think it's the best news, but it sounds like it's something that you can manage. Good luck with her!
Fidget
Senior Member
Oh, Godmother, I'm sorry Melissa was feeling so rough when you weren't able to be there to comfort her (and yourself by comforting her). I'm happy to hear that you have some idea of what's going on, so how to treat, and that treatment is helping her to get active and feel better again.
I realize she has multiple issues, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the heart stuff. Will heart meds cure or will she stay on them always? Will they stave off further damage and let her live a normal life timewise & comfort-wise? I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm thinking if I had your vet or I knew more my Summer might have come thru as well as your Melissa is (you understand).
I'm sending her kisses of happiness that she's feeling better, and I'm so happy for you too!
I realize she has multiple issues, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the heart stuff. Will heart meds cure or will she stay on them always? Will they stave off further damage and let her live a normal life timewise & comfort-wise? I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm thinking if I had your vet or I knew more my Summer might have come thru as well as your Melissa is (you understand).
I'm sending her kisses of happiness that she's feeling better, and I'm so happy for you too!
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I once asked my vet about enlarged heart in xrays. She told me that enlarged heart can be a symptom of lung disease. If Melissa continues to improve on the combo of heart meds, I may very well bring my two in for xrays and further discussions with my vet. Right now, neither are lethargic and do get better each time I add Zithro to their med list.
Fidget
Senior Member
Forgive me Godmother for making this an issue where Melissa is the issue,
but I wonder if you & Jorats (and anyone else who's learned from experience) might make a sticky about heart problems?
We don't encounter it as often as respiratory problems, but it can mimic them and perhaps I've had some kids that had heart problems mis-diagnosed as respiratory stuff - Our knowledge is only as good as what our vets tell us - unless we're lucky enough to learn from our co-rat lovers here what their experience and their vets know that ours don't.
I think it's an important thing to share, I've had ratties for 9 1/2 yrs and wouldn't know how to tell the difference or when to tell my vet I'm not satisfied with just baytril.
but I wonder if you & Jorats (and anyone else who's learned from experience) might make a sticky about heart problems?
We don't encounter it as often as respiratory problems, but it can mimic them and perhaps I've had some kids that had heart problems mis-diagnosed as respiratory stuff - Our knowledge is only as good as what our vets tell us - unless we're lucky enough to learn from our co-rat lovers here what their experience and their vets know that ours don't.
I think it's an important thing to share, I've had ratties for 9 1/2 yrs and wouldn't know how to tell the difference or when to tell my vet I'm not satisfied with just baytril.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
The real problem is that in all honesty, if people don't have post mortems done on their rats, we really are just guessing at a real diagnosis. We've had 164 rats between my parents, Nic and I and only 1 had heart disease. Xrays just don't show enough. The symptoms are similar to lung disease as well. The only thing we can go on for now is if the heart meds work and the rats become way better while on them.
Like my vet said, lung disease can cause heart disease, and vice versa, heart disease can cause lung disease. Both would need to be treated.
At this point, it's basically trial and error. If heart meds work, that's great but you still can't 100% say it's heart disease without a post mortem confirming it.
If I remember right with Boo, the one with the confirmed heart disease, he was overweight due to water retention, had swelling in the legs and difficulty breathing.
We could make a sticky on what to look for possibly and what meds to discuss with a vet.
Like my vet said, lung disease can cause heart disease, and vice versa, heart disease can cause lung disease. Both would need to be treated.
At this point, it's basically trial and error. If heart meds work, that's great but you still can't 100% say it's heart disease without a post mortem confirming it.
If I remember right with Boo, the one with the confirmed heart disease, he was overweight due to water retention, had swelling in the legs and difficulty breathing.
We could make a sticky on what to look for possibly and what meds to discuss with a vet.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
You might want to order a copy of Debbie Ducommun's Rat Health Care book (http://www.ratfanclub.org) It costs less than $10, is updated yearly and is a valuable resource. I constantly refer to it. (Just ignore the section on home euthanasia as it has been found to be inhumane.)
Among many other things, this book talks about heart disease, what to look for and treatments.
Among many other things, this book talks about heart disease, what to look for and treatments.
Fidget
Senior Member
exactly tho Jo! I went hunting for info cause of Summer, and there was very little. Probably cause of the uncertainty. But it's happening and it's getting missed because there is so little out there that is willing to atttribute stuff to heart disease wihout proof-positive, so while I might pay attention why would my vet?? And so there are a lot of kids who aren't getting the chance at a trial of meds for heart troubles, they're suffering twice a day respiratory meds that can't help them, only add to the misery they are already going thru.
That's why all experience with heart troubles and anything that helped needs to be put down where people can access it.
That's why all experience with heart troubles and anything that helped needs to be put down where people can access it.
LA
Well-Known Member
jorats said:
Out of curiosity how much does your vet charge for post mortems.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
It depends, most times it's free of charge when she's learning about a specific med or condition. For Dewi it cost my parents $72, Flea was free because she wanted to know if the Dex had done anything to the other organs and to see how it worked on the pituitary tumour.
It also depends if you want a full post mortem or partial. Full means she cuts into the brain as well.
It also depends if you want a full post mortem or partial. Full means she cuts into the brain as well.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
I learned everything I know from Debbie Ducommun's Health Care guide and the experience of SQ with her Caleb. Caleb, incidentally, was a large beautiful fawn male. he looks a lot like Melissa and her dad.
Caleb had had respiratory problems ever since he was nebulized. he got every antibiotic under the sun, but didn't get better. The vet began to think that he had some kind of tx-resistant mycoplasma. SQ called Debbie Ducommun, who told her to look at the info about heart meds and see whether they helped.
Caleb did so much better when he had the Fortekor and Atenolol. He lived another six months I think.
Rhonda also was much better after she had heart meds. Before, she would just lie around all day. After, she could go up and down in the cage and explore to her heart's content, even though she never did go back to climbing.
So I guess we'd better do a sticky on heart problems.
Caleb had had respiratory problems ever since he was nebulized. he got every antibiotic under the sun, but didn't get better. The vet began to think that he had some kind of tx-resistant mycoplasma. SQ called Debbie Ducommun, who told her to look at the info about heart meds and see whether they helped.
Caleb did so much better when he had the Fortekor and Atenolol. He lived another six months I think.
Rhonda also was much better after she had heart meds. Before, she would just lie around all day. After, she could go up and down in the cage and explore to her heart's content, even though she never did go back to climbing.
So I guess we'd better do a sticky on heart problems.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Melissa still has long bouts of hiccupping, but otherwise I cannot hear any unusual breathing noises using Rat Phone.She is active in the cage, has regained her impressive appetite, and gets right in there begging for treats!
I have stopped giving her Lasix t.i.d. She gets it twice a day with her abs and her Fortekor (benazepril).
I'll have to take her to the vet next week for a followup.
I am so happy about this.
