Intro's please see new post re adding boyz?

[Petunia]

Intro's have begun with my new rats.

I have a momma, age unknown but estimated to be about 5 mos now? and one baby daughter from her litter of 13- all PEWs!!

The momma, Paige, seems comfortable enough with me now to start intro's.

I have a dbl CN and in one half is Cookie and Hope, both estimated around a year old. In the other half are the new PEW girls, Mom Paige and baby Evie.


Evie is still too young and small to be safely intro'ed so I tried Paige and Cookie on the ironing board, literally the only place that none of the resident rats have had access to (except the bath tub and I cannot get down on my bad knees to try to do a bath tub intro!)

OK, so I covered the ironing board with a towel, and put out some oatmeal and a couple of things that the girls could to into but that were easy enough to lift off or get them out of.

Put Paige on the ironing board first and she wasn't interested in the oatmeal so I quickly went and got a little plate and smeared it with fruit flavored yogurt. Yeh, she liked that LOL


Then I went and got Cookie and put her on the opposite end of the plate, and Cookie, being as food driven as Paige, put her head down and starting licking up the yogurt with only a glance at Paige.

They ate like that for some time. Then Paige checked out Cookie, sniffed her butt, sniffed her side, walked away, washed herself, came back and sniffed Cookie some more, all the while Cookie is still eating.

Cookie stops eating and goes and checks out Paige. All is well, no sign of any trouble at all, I am so relieved, you have no idea!

they go back and forth checking each other out, but not intensely, just fairly casually but you can see they are both a bit tense as it's a new place for both of them so they are more checking out where they are then each other.

Ok, I don't know how long I am supposed to leave them together, but I figure they're gonna get tired, it's not the normal time for them to be up and out, so I put Cookie back and push my luck and get Hope out...

probably should have known better, I dunno. Hope is the alpha in the pair of Cookie and Hope, and Hope can be a bit bossy. She will literally pull Cookie around by her ear! she power grooms her a LOT and I hear Cookie squeaking a lot but except for the chewed up ear, she's not hurt her, so I try to stay out of it.

anyway I brought Hope out and she sniffed the yogurt, but saw Paige and was on her in an instant. Just jumped on her back and I had to grab Hope off and take her back to her cage.
There wasn't any biting, no time for any squeaking or anything, the reaction was instant and my response was to immediately get her out of there.

I am hoping that was the right thing to do? I don't know what Hope was going to do next.

Ok so I hope you all can give me ideas on how to proceed. I can't let the baby be intro'ed til next week at the earliest, and considering the size difference- the PEW girls are tiny! and Cookie and Hope are big- I should probably wait the full 10 weeks before trying to include the baby girl in intros

For those who know that I do have 2 other rats, Clair and Tilly, my old ladies, they are not going to be intro'ed at all. They will live together til one of them passes away, and then the remaining girl may be introed IF it's Tilly- if it's Clair, it's doubtful that Clair will accept any other rat. I am not ruling out, but for now, it's not on the list of intro's to try. Clair attacked Cooke and bit her over 10 times. I don't see her ever warming up to other rats.


so, what should be my next step? continue to let Paige and Cookie get together and pray they become good friends and then add Hope?

try adding Paige and Hope together just the two of them?

Oh, the two pairs of girls in the dble CN have been in each other's half of the cage, and now that the new girls are fairly comfortable here, I let them swap halves every couple of days, so each pair has had the top and the bottom a couple of times now.

any and all suggestions welcome! I have not had too many successful intro's so I am a bit nervous about this.

thanks!

 

[jorats]

Girls on girls is usually easier in my experience, especially when they aren't spayed.
You kind of put Paige at an unfair disadvantage in this situation. You allowed Paige to meet Cookie, both got stressed but calmed down, all the while, Hope was listening to Cookie meeting the intruder and she was gearing up and beefing up to get Paige.
My advice... intro all three together. I'd do this for a while before baby is introed as well. Hope is gunning for something and until she relaxes with Paige, she shouldn't be near baby. But if you can, keep switching cages.

 

[mamarat]

Don't add anything they can go into at first. Just the three girls and yummy food and water. Have a towel ready to "throw" on the aggressive rat and dominate her. Good luck!

 

[Petunia]

Girls on girls is usually easier in my experience, especially when they aren't spayed.
You kind of put Paige at an unfair disadvantage in this situation. You allowed Paige to meet Cookie, both got stressed but calmed down, all the while, Hope was listening to Cookie meeting the intruder and she was gearing up and beefing up to get Paige.
My advice... intro all three together. I'd do this for a while before baby is introed as well. Hope is gunning for something and until she relaxes with Paige, she shouldn't be near baby. But if you can, keep switching cages.

Oh wow, really?
well, the ironing board is in the kitchen, you can't even see it from the room where the cages are...
But Hope of course still knew that Cookie was taken out first.

er actually I take Cookie out fairly often by herself because she's my #2 heart rat (Clair is my first) Do you think that makes Hope jealous? Cookie will settle down and nap on me, Hope is too hyper and is always looking for a way to run off and play and I want to spend time just lovin on the Cookie.........and not worrying about Hope taking off on me.
is this not a good idea as well.
I mean Cookie is awfully fond of me too. We like hanging out, just the two of us. Me and Clair too (Tilly doesn't seem to mind, Tilly prefers a hammock to my lap)

Anyway, I thought it would be safer and fairer to Paige to have her meet just one girl at a time, rather than have to take on two new girls at once..........?

So um, you let the alpha rat get to dominate both rats?

oh I do not understand rat relationships at all. :shock: :roll:

 

[jorats]

Oh no, I don't think Hope is jealous, in fact, she's probably quite happy being left to defend the kingdom while the princess Cookie is taken out for a stroll.
It will be a lot more for Paige to handle but at least all three meet at the same time, at the same level of stress and can calm down at the same time too.
Trust me no matter where you are in the house, all the rats can smell each other and know exactly what is going on.

 

[Roo]

I never have any suggestions with intros because I have never had problems so don't have much experience...


but

she was gearing up and beefing up to get Paige.

put a great image in my head.

 

[Petunia]

I decided to clean out the tub and try Cookie and Hope and Paige in a place new to them all.

That description of Hope "gearing up and beefing up to get Paige"- um, yeh.

She went right for Paige, no hesitation at all, she didn't puff up she just jumped on her and bit the back of her neck, pretty bad by the looks of it.


I took her off immediately of course. Put all the rats back in their cages and now I am gonna look up what to do for poor Paige with the bite wound.

What is wrong with these rats? or is it me?

when I got my first 3 rats, I got another two much older rats shortly afterward. I didn't have any experience with intro's, didn't know about the neutral territory, at least I don't think I did, I just remember letting the newest rats out on the bed with the 3 resident rats and they all got along fine.
The two older girls were unpredictable biters and I couldn't pick them up without putting them inside something first, but they got along ok with my first 3 girls.
Then I added Tilly and Tessa and they were all ok together.
It wasn't til after the biting girls died and I got fosters that my group of five started rejecting all newbies- most especially Mumma rat (who is gone now) and her daughter Clair.


Now I've got three pairs of rats, all living separately. This is not how it was supposed to work out.


I tried to intro Cookie and Hope to my current oldest pair, Clair and Tilly that went horribly- with Cookie getting bitten pretty badly.

Now it looks like Hope is going to be the problem child.

but I'm also afraid that the bad experience with Cookie and Clair has made me so nervous that I'll never be able to relax enough to do intro's properly ever again.

Maybe I should wait til the baby girl Evie is big enough, and try to intro all four at the same time..........?

or maybe I should see if I can get someone else to do the intro's for me? yeh I am that scared now. I didn't know how badly rats could injure each other til that episode with Clair and Cookie and now all I can imagine is the worst outcome.

:gaah:

 

[jorats]

but I'm also afraid that the bad experience with Cookie and Clair has made me so nervous that I'll never be able to relax enough to do intro's properly ever again.

This is exactly what's going on. You need to forget everything that has happened. That is the past, that is done with. Each new intro is a new experience and an opportunity to learn and teach to and from the rats.

Maybe I should wait til the baby girl Evie is big enough, and try to intro all four at the same time..........?

Personally, this is what I would do. I'd wait till Evie is about 4 months old. There's nothing wrong in waiting, in fact, it will make Hope live with their smells longer and might very well be ready for the meeting when it happens.

or maybe I should see if I can get someone else to do the intro's for me? yeh I am that scared now. I didn't know how badly rats could injure each other til that episode with Clair and Cookie and now all I can imagine is the worst outcome.

This would be best case scenario, because of your fear.
Rats can badly injure themselves but 99% of the time they heal and they forget. Humans are really the only ones to carry grudges and sorrow for past events.

 

[MooLlama]

I've never had any issue introducing girls(and I've never had males!) Have you tried holding on to the aggressor while letting her get sniffed by the newer rats? I've always done my intros with the rats, sitting in with them where ever they are so both the new and old rats know that the other one is already excepted by me. But, like I said, I've never had any blood drawn during any intros so it possible that I've just been lucky as well :lol:

 

[jorats]

Have you tried holding on to the aggressor while letting her get sniffed by the newer rats?

I don't recommend this... you could get bitten pretty bad if the aggressor gets too upset. And it might scare off the newer rats even from you.

 

[Petunia]

Thanks for all the info-

a situation has arisen so um, what about adding an older neutered male or two?

a friend has two she's no longer able to take care of, one is 2yrs old, the other 1 1/2 yrs old

both big lovable squishes.


would this add too much stress, or mellow everybody out?

 

[jorats]

They would probably make a wonderful addition to the colony.

 

[Petunia]

They would probably make a wonderful addition to the colony.

thanks yeh they probably would have but it's not going to work out, the boys have issues that I can't risk exposing my girls to

but I am a lot less nervous about the intros with my girls, so that's good. just going to take my time and try not to rush the girls, or myself!

 

[jorats]

They would probably make a wonderful addition to the colony.

thanks yeh they probably would have but it's not going to work out, the boys have issues that I can't risk exposing my girls to

but I am a lot less nervous about the intros with my girls, so that's good. just going to take my time and try not to rush the girls, or myself!

That's a good plan.