Intro...not going swimmingly.

[hprats]

Okay, so I've only ever done one intro before, a shy older manrat to two young brothers. It went crazy well. A tiny amount of scuffling but they were all fast friends. I know from reading that that's not to be expected.
I've read most of the huge intro thread here, and have read the steps a bunch.

But okay, if one rat is puffed up, does that mean you can't proceed with the intro at that moment?

Okay, so yesterday, there was a fight between them that I found hard to split up, Peter (4-5 months, has lived with me for almost 2) just kept trying to get back at Fred (new guy, 5-6 months (shelter said 6 but he's pretty small! I thought 6 months is full grown?)). Fred is not exactly relaxed, but not aggressive, through all of this. He sniffs and licks his new friends, engages in boxing but not really aggressively. He humps them a lot though (not Peter, but my other two).

but after the first fight, I let Peter cool down and then he had about an hour of free ranging before I put him back in Fred's cage, and that was fine. They were happy together for over an hour before I separated them and went to bed.

Today is when I saw the problem though. First of all, I'd never seen a puffed up rat before, but once he got in the new guy's cage he puffed right up and then kind of just went after him. I didn't see any blood at that time, but just the way it went right to a fight, I tried to split it up immediately but Peter kept nipping me and I was having trouble getting him out. He was also hissing, I've never heard that before either. Finally I just got Fred out instead and the poor little guy had 3 bleeding bites (they've all stopped bleeding now and he's cleaned himself up so you can't even tell he was hurt).

So what now? Do I go to neutral ground intros? Is it safe to try that later tonight? I think I'll always have Peter run around first...I tried to get him to today but he just went straight for the cage. He wasn't puffed up until he got in the cage though. Is a puffed up rat a reason to separate them right then or should I wait for a scuffle?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Did you start with neutral intros? If so how did they go?

 

[hprats]

Nope, I started yesterday with introducing them in the tiny cage that Fred has to live in until he can move in with the other boys.
Figuring it's kind of neutral cause Fred hasn't lived there long and I cleaned the other boys' smells from it.

With my other intro I skipped the neutral ground step, and thought that I could again since they are still young and haven't shown any aggression.

So should I do neutral intros tonight? Should I keep Peter and Fred apart for the rest of the day or longer? If he puffs up, I should grab him out immediately right, rather than let them figure it out themselves?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

You should always start with neutral open territory so that there is no areas that can be claimed and fights can be easily broken up. However with what happened I would give them a few days to recover before you re-try on neutral ground and then follow each and every intro step from there.

 

[jorats]

Thats your main issue, a cage. You are lucky one didn't out right attack the other.
Start your intro on neutral ground. No cages!

 

[xxchelle]

I'd definitely re-read some intro threads before attempting intros again, cages are BAD BAD BAD to start with - must be completely neutral ground like the bathtub (that's what we usually use).

 

[hprats]

Well, I don't think the tub is going to work because Albus, the other young rat I already had, refuses to stay in it (jumps straight out) for more than a second, even if though there was a nice towel down and peas to eat! Peter would probably be the same, but I could see Neville hanging out in there.

The reason I went with the cage is when I was doing the last, easy intro, I had read someone saying she swore by "the carrier method" and yah, I just figured that since the cage is new to Fred, it's pretty neutral. What about a big cardboard box?

Peter is free ranging now, and seems obsessed with Fred's cage. Should I keep him away from it or let him sniff around it? I've moved the cage so that Fred doesn't feel threatened and cornered but should I put it back?

 

[hprats]

Also...they're free-ranging in the same area, though not at the same time. That's not a problem, is it?

 

[hprats]

Okay, I have a bigger cage coming for Fred, so I don't have to feel guilty about him staying in the tiny cage until the intros get sorted out.

Another question though...can I split up my group and put one of my easy going boys in there after another day or so? Intros between Fred and Albus and Neville are going great, absolutely no real fighting...a little boxing and pinning, but mostly happy grooming, ball licking, and cuddles. It's just Peter who's giving him a hard time (and yah, I've got money set a side for a possible neuter for him, but I thought it was too soon).

 

[Moon]

You could move an easy going cagemate with him, but certainly, don't do so without following intro procedure.

Having them do out time in the same area but it is not neutral ground then, so not suitable to the early stages of intros.

The carrier method is exactly that... popping them into a carrier with NO rat smell in it and taking them out of the house... for a drive in the car or out for a walk or something. They need to be 100% out of their comfort zone.

 

[hprats]

Ah, yah, I get it now.
I understand their regular out time isn't neutral ground for intros, I just want to be sure that smelling Fred's scent in their area won't make them more angry with him or something.

Rat psychology is still pretty new to me, I don't totally understand my babies yet!

I was confused about the carrier method, ack. I thought it was more about the small space, but I see now.

Thanks guys, I understand what I have to do now

 

[jorats]

Allowing Peter to sniff around the cage is fine so long as none of the rats become upset.
Also they can both free range in the same room but at different times.
But keep their meetings neutral for now.