hormones? phantom pregnancy? OCD behaviours?

[ryelle]

My ‘problem rat’ is being a problem rat again lol.
Muirenn. My sweet and sour she-devil.
She has been obsessively nesting the past couple of days and has been putting toilet roll tubes and Loofah's into the food bowls. I’ve been bitten twice (not broken the skin but it hurt lol). She has been sleeping on her own too, i'm not sure if its out of choice or if Patrick won't let her sleep with them. She is getting a bit too big for her boots and is pushing the other two rats around, ending up with her getting herself pinned upside down to the floor. I’ll explain now that Patrick is the ‘alpha’ in the cage, he is the boy (neutered) and he is the oldest, then there is Clodagh, and then Muirenn, who has to deal with a lot of pinning and power-grooming.

I ended up separating the rats last night. I left Muirenn in the top with her nest and locked Patrick and Clodagh into the bottom with the Savic Circus. Muirenn shredded a hammock to add to her nest, so to save the other fabric in the cage I put a tonne of shredded paper in the cage before I went to bed. Muirenn went about loading paper into her nest and Patrick and Clodagh started packing the Circus (Mu had cleaned it out of paper during the day). She ended up getting flipped over by Clodagh who hunted her down after because she tried to fight her for some paper. Patrick walked over to the nest and Mu attacked him and chased him to the bottom of the cage.
It was 11:30pm and I just couldn’t be doing with any fights in the night so I just split them up.

My ideas:
Hormones: She has a heat every fourth day on the dot and runs around at sonic speed and flaps her ears like I don’t know what, so it could be an over-dose of hormones into her system.
Phantom-pregnancy: Now, I don’t know and don’t think rats go through phantom pregnancies. Phantom pregnancies occur in pack animals, where there are two alphas and only they reproduce. The other females in the pack go through a phantom-pregnancy so they are able to produce milk and nurse the offspring whilst the alpha’s keep control of the pack. If rats could go through a phantom-pregnancy, I would put my money on it.
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder behaviours: With the new cage came a new wheel (Silent Spinner), which Mu hasn’t been using as much as she used her Wodent Wheel. So, my next idea is that she is replacing her obsessive wheel running with obsessive nest building.
Health: There may be something wrong with the health of my three rats and its causing some tension in the group. I heard Clodagh making clicking noises when she was asleep yesterday morning.

What to do?
Well, firstly, I have made an appointment for all three of them to get checked out at the vet’s tomorrow afternoon. If there are any health issues, then they will be dealt with tomorrow. I’m also frantically trying to find the stand for the Wodent Wheel to add in to the cage to see if Mu will run again, and if her nesting, nipping and dominance behaviour will die out.
I’m not too sure what else to do. I spend a lot of time cuddling Mu compared to the other two rats (she is my licky girl), so I don’t know if that is making her think she is more dominant than the other two.


Any suggestions?


The nest, the Loofah in the bowl and the toilet roll tubes :? The other rats are sleeping downstairs lol.

 

[SQ]

- She could be upset by the recent changes in her environment.

- Determined nest building behaviour is normal for some ratties. It can consume most of their time and be very creative.

- I find that girls going into heat totally upsets the entire cage with lots scuffles breaking out.
(I am still babysitting godmothers' rats and the two baby girls are not yet large enough for the vet to feel comfortable spaying. When they are in heat I have to separate the rats in order to get any sleep. They are growing rapidly so it will not be much longer. :thumbup: )

- Good that they are going to the vet to get checked out, just in case something is wrong.

 

[jorats]

How old is she now?
It sounds like typical behaviour for some females. Nest building is an art don't you know. lol
Good that you are getting them all vet checked.

 

[ryelle]

she is 9 months old, and doesnt normally build nests. Patrick normally builds them around his sleeping ladies lmao.

I cant find the stupid stand for the wheel ><

 

[jorats]

9 months sounds about right for her to want a family. I bet she's nest building hoping to turn Patrick into more of a manrat. lol

 

[blytherue]

One of my boys is constantly putting tp tubes, blankies, toys, and whatever's not nailed down into the food dish. And one of the others will push all the blankets to the front of the cage (and out if you open the doors) when he feels they're dirty or something, and then he will take new ones from you and put them in different spots in the cage. The heat thing sounds like a safe bet, not that I would know, but our little ratties can just be weird sometimes too lol.

 

[ryelle]

9 months sounds about right for her to want a family. I bet she's nest building hoping to turn Patrick into more of a manrat. lol

HAHA she is about 10 months too late for that.

I found the wheel stand last night and she was walking in the wheel whilst i was trying to put it into the cage - awkward.

It is cage cleaning day today so ill see if she acts the same when the cage is clean. Your boys sound like fun Bly LOL


I looked in this morning and Mu is in the nest on her own and Patrick and Clodagh are at the very bottom of the cage. Clodagh seems to go very stiff and defensive when Mu walks past her. She then follows her and pins her down or nips her. She is such a meanie :evil: I have an inkling that she is a little bit unwell though. I dont want it to turn into bullying.

Now, to try and clean the cage without messing up that nest lol. Vets at 3:10 this afternoon. Ill update when we get back

 

[jorats]

Good luck!

 

[ryelle]

We have a clean bill of health on all three. The vet thinks that Mu is having a false pregnancy which is why she is nipping and being a bit agressive with the other rats, and is moving certain objects around wierdly. She said that the new cage is probably a factor too and the Mu is trying to change her rank but isnt getting anywhere.

Poor Muirenn.

Im going to have to keep an eye on it all. It is a shame that she isn't a bird lol. You can manipulate a birds environment to knock them out of breeding season, but rats breed all year round ><

 

[xxchelle]

I didn't know rats could have false pregnancies. That's pretty interesting!

 

[ryelle]

i didn't either. I thought that it was a bit of a far-fetched idea but i never mentioned it to the vet and she brought it up.

Ill have a dig around when i have a spare few hours and see if i can find any info to back it up.

 

[xxchelle]

I'd love to read some more info on it, if you can find any. Or if others have experienced this with their ratties?

In any case, does your vet think that she'll stop this behavior in a few weeks? Poor thing! All confused... haha.

 

[jorats]

A lot of vets will take from other animals. I know that rabbits can have false pregnancies so why not rats? Which come to think of it makes a lot of sense in some of my rats' behaviours.

 

[mamarat]

Wow that's really interesting, Ryelle. Might explain the behavior of some of my girls.

 

[Rachael]

On a few UK forums I've seen several phantom pregnancies... I can talk to some of the people that experienced them if you need any advice... not been through it with my rats personally.

But keep a really close eye on her. This is how my girls sometimes act before they get a tumour - Pink got 3 tumours and before each tumour made huuuuge nests, nibbled, etc.

 

[ryelle]

ill keep an eye on her and note any changes in health and behaviour If she ever gets a tumour i will get her spayed at the same time.

Ill try and find some scientific information about it all in the morning. It has peaked my curiosity.

 

[ryelle]

There is a fair bit of information out there regarding phantom-pregnancies (psuedopregnancies) in female rats. One of the journal abstracts ive read say that pseudopregnancy lasts for 13 days, and can be influenced by male hormone status (whether they are castrated or not).

My head is pounding because of air pressure - damn changes in the weather! - so ill try and post some quotes and a bit more when i can get my head around it all

 

[jorats]

Very interesting!

 

My momma ratty (well she had her babies 11 motnsh ago) always makes nests ..as soon as I put paper towels in the cage, she's gone with them & also she is very pushy towads other rats on certain days ..I blame it on her going into heat. But nesting she just dose all the time.

 

[ryelle]

Its a little bit different to normal heat. My rats never nip me, and Mu has actually bitten me twice in the past week. The nesting is very obsessive aswell, and she is moving certain objects around like they are babies. She wouldn't let any other rats near the nest and physically attacked them. There was other odd behaviours that i think i mentioned in the first post.

Its all a little odd and very unnatural for me to be seeing, obviously a natural behaviour for her though, and the first time i've ever heard of a phantom-pregnancy but it was definately the first thing that popped into my mind.