hmm intro's going in reverse?

[Petunia]

I've been gradually introducing my two new baby girls to the four older residents and it's gone remarkably well on neutral territory (my bed)

so I decided to try them in the communal rat room. The first session went really well but i had to cut it short, unfortunately

the next time out, it looked like things were going well, too- but then one of the baby girls climbed into the cage (I leave the cage open with stairs set up by it so they can come and go as they please)
well the baby girl went into the cage and Hope followed and you could see she was going to go for her- she didn't puff up but she looked really ticked off.
The baby seemed to sense this and came back out of the cage.

Thought things were ok then but the other baby girl happened to cross Hope's path, literally, and I guess Hope was still riled up about the intruder in HER cage LOL
so she jumped on the other girl, who wasn't expecting it, and the fur flew.

I got them separated and things calmed down, put everyone back to play so we didn't end things there ( but gave the baby girls a place to hide if they needed to) and then a few minutes later put them all back

so, now I am back to bringing everyone out on my bed again and it's almost like starting over!
As soon as Hope gets a little bit comfortable, she gets all huffy and goes after the two little ones.
Then the other older girls get in on it, and there's various spats between them but no real aggression,
that is reserved for the baby girls ONLY

and only Hope is showing aggression towards them. Cookie and Evie and Paige have all "had words" with the babies Brenna and Smidge, just to put them in their place, but they have not tried to hurt them

Hope often starts out doing something similar, but for some reason, the baby girls do not react the same to her- they get very obstinate and refuse to back down, and THEN things get ugly

so, what is going on??? and where do I go from here?
Have I inadvertently given the new comers the idea that I will save them from Hope, so they can do whatever they want, by letting them come to me when things get really tense?

I have tried so hard to stay out of it, but Hope will go from mildly annoyed to very vicious, very quickly.
she did break the skin on Smidge, not really bad but bad enough that she's got a scab on her back


any ideas welcome!

I am wondering about maybe doing things a session or two with JUST Hope and the baby girls???
what do you think?
and what if I were to move them to the tub with water? I couldn't do that with all 6 girls, though, because several of them are able to jump out of the tub and are also not at all afraid of water. I couldn't keep all 6 safe.

 

[jorats]

Number one mistake: the cage.
You will need to have that cage blocked off. Rats shouldn't go in it or climb it.
So now go back only one step for one day... Then try the room again sans cage.
The more intros you can do, the better it is.
Also, the fact that these young one don't go run and hide when they see Hope means that she really is not aggressive but simply wants to lay down the law. She has every right to do so.

 

[Petunia]

Number one mistake: the cage.
You will need to have that cage blocked off. Rats shouldn't go in it or climb it.
So now go back only one step for one day... Then try the room again sans cage.
The more intros you can do, the better it is.
Also, the fact that these young one don't go run and hide when they see Hope means that she really is not aggressive but simply wants to lay down the law. She has every right to do so.

:emb: :emb: :emb:

what a dope I am, of course that's it. I guess in the back of my mind I was thinking if they casually went from playing in the room to hanging out in the cage together, that might speed things up......

OK, I had them out earlier and it ended up with Evie and the baby girls in the same half of the cage, with no real problem, just Evie asserting her dominance over the newbies, and then they were all sleeping in a pile in the same hammock so I left them. They've been ok since.

Hmm, I don't know if I have anything big/tall enough to block off the cage, I may have to wheel it out of the room.

I tried blocking off a section of the room with an old closet door that I"d removed, and they were able to scale that. :roll:
in fact it was the first thing they all did, climb over the door and into the section I"d tried to block off.
:roll: :giggle:

 

[jorats]

Ya, you'll have marathon runners and jumpers if you try to block off the cage especially since they are used to having access to it in the room. If you can easily wheel it out, that would be the best option.