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Savitar

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Texas
I have a young male rat that we have had for about 4 weeks along with him i got a female well they both did the normal sneezing for the first week when it continued i got worried so i started changing the litter box litter, after several changes i ended up with unscented cat litter and noticed a decrees in the sneezing and itching (the female was itchy).

3 days ago the male Zorro gave me a heart attack i came in and found him lying stretched out on his belly eyes lidded and gasping and sneezing, thinking he was over hot i worked to cool him down but it wasn't really helping. I changed the newspaper that was in there over to paper towels something i had been toying with to see if that was causing the allergic reaction in them both though him to a lesser degree. About 3 hours later he seemed to perk back up though still sneezing and heaving a bit, the next morning the same laying stretched out and gasping only now i could here a chuffing noise. Yesterday i came in to feed him and he was perky though still gasping a bit but his eyes looked bright and he had more energy so i fed him my sister hadn't done that yet that day, he loves the dog food and always eats it first and i sat down to watch them a bit and minutes after he started eating it he started gasping again and his eyes became lidded and he well coughed several times i think and started sneezing again.

I had realized that 3 days ago we bought a different brand of dog food that i had never fed them before i immediately took all the dog food out and the piece away from him, in about 25 to 30 minutes his eyes brightened up again and his breathing though still labored wasn't as harsh he didn't eat much of the piece he had. Yesterday afternoon he was still gasping and coughing when eating and i noticed his nose seemed red and a bit wet. He has dropped a lot of weight and looks more like a bag of bones than a rat when i witnessed the female taking food out of his hands and chasing him away from the food bowl even though there are 2 in the cage i decided to move him to a separate cage.

I placed him in the separate cage about 2am last night around 4 i remembered we had a humidifier from when my nephew was young and had cancer and found it and got it cleaned up and working. I had the humidifier on him for about 2 hours with a towel propped up around the cage to keep the humidity in, i checked on him this morning a bit ago and turned off the humidifier and noticed he had eaten nearly half the food on the plate and was certainly looking a bit plumper, at the time he had been turning his hide box around and moving the cut up towels around to make a nest he kept popping out to look at me and coming to the side of the cage so i would give him a little rub on the head. He is still breathing rapidly though it doesn't seem as heaving or labored and is sneezing a lot actually. I am wondering if the sneezing now that seems to have increased despite his increase in energy and alertness is the mucous breaking up and he is expelling it thanks to the humidifier. Does this sound like some kind of food allergy or do i need to get really worried and would benydril help ease his sneezing and breathing?

I know he probably needs a vet but as much as i hate to say this and hope no one get's angry my family needs to be fed first, we had something come up with our car and well we are going to be hurting a bit this month as much as i love Zorro my human family does come first in my life over my animal family. So right now all i can do is try and treat him at home and pray that he gets better as well as try and get some advice to do that.

Oh yeah and since i took out the newspaper the female is no longer scratching like crazy and the sneezing has decreased a lot though it's not completely gone but that could be because she likes to stick her nose on everything the only time i hear her sneeze now is when she shoves her nose against my hand or something in the cage her nose is dry so i am not terribly worried about her though i do wonder if i can give her benydril as well (I have some as i have a dog with allergies) i don't know their weight but they are not full grown, i think the male is about 9 weeks old and the female is 11 weeks though i am not positive on that.
 
Oh boy.
First, please please please do not keep male and female together. Before you know it, you'll have 12 new mouths to feed every 3 to 4 weeks.
Second, your boy really needs to see a vet. If he has a lung infection and left untreated he will surely die. Maybe your vet will allow for a payment plan, or perhaps find a pet insurance that can help?
Third, I'd also do a mite/lice treatment on both the boy and girl. Mites/lice can cause the itching as well as a very weak immune system which could explain why the boy is not feeling well.
Fourth, rats can't eat dog food. They need rat food. Dog food is not formulated for rats. Rats need lots of grains as their energy source. They also need very low protein and very low fat.
 
jorats said:
Oh boy.
First, please please please do not keep male and female together. Before you know it, you'll have 12 new mouths to feed every 3 to 4 weeks.
Second, your boy really needs to see a vet. If he has a lung infection and left untreated he will surely die. Maybe your vet will allow for a payment plan, or perhaps find a pet insurance that can help?
Third, I'd also do a mite/lice treatment on both the boy and girl. Mites/lice can cause the itching as well as a very weak immune system which could explain why the boy is not feeling well.
Fourth, rats can't eat dog food. They need rat food. Dog food is not formulated for rats. Rats need lots of grains as their energy source. They also need very low protein and very low fat.

He doesn't eat just dog food i only put a bit in there as a treat they have Mazuri rat block, bird seed, pumpkin seed, bread cracker or macaroni depending on what i have, and peas green beans or corn he just likes the bit of dog food as a treat while the female likes a yogurt drop. They also get a bit of rice crispies when i eat it in the morning or a bit of pancake without the syrup.

I guess i am going to have to make some calls to see if i can find someone that will let us do that, i will also look into the lice/mite treatment we only just got the second cage a a day before he got sick i hadn't realized they got sexually mature that fast and a friend of ours gave us one. These are our first rats and they were given to us and we are doing our best to care for them.
 
Okay have got a appointment with a vet here i town that is willing to work with me, they can't get me in until 3:30pm today but they can get me in which is awesome considering it's Monday i always have trouble getting a appointment at the vets office on Monday.

After 4 hours with the humidifier he is not only eating but also grooming himself for the first time in days i watched him while making the phone calls he didn't sneeze at all while i was in there. His breathing is back to normal too finally, he is most definitely still going to the vet however as i really want to know what is going on with him and the reason why this happened i will have to pay the office visit fee but can work with him on the cost of any medical fees that result from the visit which is something i can work with.
 
Also please wish me luck that he is alright and it's something easily fixable because of some mess up that i made and not something more serious.
 
It sounds like the steam is helping and clearing his lungs. So I would think it's very fixable with some good antibiotics like Baytril.
Lots and lots of good luck for your little ones.
Perhaps, when you are better settled and can afford it, a spay or neuter for one of the rats and they can then safely live together. A sweet little couple.
 
Wanted to tell yall that we went to the the vet it's a RI and we got the meds for it so we will see how it goes in the next few days or weeks. The vet wasn't exactly the most optimistic he said that he was very small and was probably the runt and that there might be some underlying condition that is the root of all this. He only weighs 94 grams right now, his age should be around 8 to 10 weeks i really do not think that is normal weight which would explain his he is very small comment he hasn't really grown at all in the 4 weeks we have had him at least not size wise i am not sure about weight but i will be weighing them often from now on.

I am completely exhausted right now I was up all night last night with him then today and tonight again so i am going to go to bed. Right now all i can do is make him comfortable and give him his meds the rest is up to him. I gave him a mixture of the Mazuri some honey seeds and corn and crackers tonight to try and help bring his weight up tomorrow we will go to the store and get some baby food applesauce i remember reading it can help with dehydration and that it's good for them. The vet thinks the cause (if he isn't just weak naturally) may have been the pine bedding he was on when we got him we threw it out right away i know it's not good for animals and everyone in this house is allergic to Ceder and Pine i am also allergic to Aspen so we don't have any of it in their cages. Can he get sick from the Pine 4 weeks after exposure and not show any signs before that?

I am watching the female closely but not seeing any more sneezing than normal also since i changed out the newspaper she no longer scratches at all but i will still look into the treatment the vet didn't see anything on the male though. I think she has sensitive whiskers or something she only sneezes when she touches her nose to something whether it's my hand a box or a toy for some reason she likes to just shove her nose at things to investigate it but she doesn't sneeze while eating, sleeping, or running around.

Anything else you can think of to help him out and make him comfortable any foods other than what i am giving him that can help him get some strength and gain some weight back?

The humidifier is really helping i moved him into my room today to watch him better the only place to put him was on the desk i couldn't get the towel to tent properly when it was there but figured it would be okay as he was still getting some of the humidifier, within hours i heard him start coughing and making almost barking noises. I rushed him back into the kitchen and set him up like i had him before and the cough/barking stopped within 30 minutes to say the least i won't be moving him again he can have my kitchen table for the time being that is why they invented tv trays.

Thanks for the advice i was panicking
 
Savitar said:
Anything else you can think of to help him out and make him comfortable any foods other than what i am giving him that can help him get some strength and gain some weight back?

Supplimenting his diet with soy infant formula (or ensure) mixed with baby cereal, will give him good extra nutrition.
Many people suppliment the diets of young babies and ill seniors with this.
(However, calicum within 2 hours of medication is not a good idea as it can reduce the effectiveness of many meds)

You might also want to see if Harlan Tech 2014, Oxbow Regal Rat or Hagen/Living World extrusian hamster blocks are available in your area as they are better for rats then Mazuri.
(The recommended diet is 80% good lab block, and 20% daily veg and occassional healthy treats such as a piece of fruit, cooked cereal, a cheerio, a piece of boiled egg, etc.)

Btw, if your ratties have mites, they are too small to be seen by just looking (and skin scrappings are painful and often give false results). When rats are scratching a fair amount (esp around the head and neck), people just usually treat with cat or kitten revolution as the reason is usually mites.

What meds is your boy on?
Hope both your ratties are soon feeling better.
It sounds like you are doing a great job.
 
SQ said:
Savitar said:
Anything else you can think of to help him out and make him comfortable any foods other than what i am giving him that can help him get some strength and gain some weight back?

Supplimenting his diet with soy infant formula (or ensure) mixed with baby cereal, will give him good extra nutrition.
Many people suppliment the diets of young babies and ill seniors with this.
(However, calicum within 2 hours of medication is not a good idea as it can reduce the effectiveness of many meds)

You might also want to see if Harlan Tech 2014, Oxbow Regal Rat or Hagen/Living World extrusian hamster blocks are available in your area as they are better for rats then Mazuri.
(The recommended diet is 80% good lab block, and 20% daily veg and occassional healthy treats such as a piece of fruit, cooked cereal, a cheerio, a piece of boiled egg, etc.)

Btw, if your ratties have mites, they are too small to be seen by just looking (and skin scrappings are painful and often give false results). When rats are scratching a fair amount (esp around the head and neck), people just usually treat with cat or kitten revolution as the reason is usually mites.

What meds is your boy on?
Hope both your ratties are soon feeling better.
It sounds like you are doing a great job.


argh i had posted a long post and it deleted it when i hit submit because for some reason it logged me out while typing we have a storm rolling in and i have to shut down the computer and will have to retype my post later *pouts*
 
SQ said:
Savitar said:
Anything else you can think of to help him out and make him comfortable any foods other than what i am giving him that can help him get some strength and gain some weight back?

Supplimenting his diet with soy infant formula (or ensure) mixed with baby cereal, will give him good extra nutrition.
Many people suppliment the diets of young babies and ill seniors with this.
(However, calicum within 2 hours of medication is not a good idea as it can reduce the effectiveness of many meds)

You might also want to see if Harlan Tech 2014, Oxbow Regal Rat or Hagen/Living World extrusian hamster blocks are available in your area as they are better for rats then Mazuri.
(The recommended diet is 80% good lab block, and 20% daily veg and occassional healthy treats such as a piece of fruit, cooked cereal, a cheerio, a piece of boiled egg, etc.)

Btw, if your ratties have mites, they are too small to be seen by just looking (and skin scrappings are painful and often give false results). When rats are scratching a fair amount (esp around the head and neck), people just usually treat with cat or kitten revolution as the reason is usually mites.

What meds is your boy on?
Hope both your ratties are soon feeling better.
It sounds like you are doing a great job.

I think i will hold off on milk products i know in humans it causes increased mucus production making sinus infections worse, he is on baytril or beytril i forgot how to spell it. Thanks for that info on mites i really don't think this vet knew much about rats but he was the only one that would let us do a payment plan. I think i will wait to try treating that until after he gets better he is very fragile right now.

I know it's only been one day and it takes me at least 2 weeks to get over sinus infections so i have no idea how long rats can fight this off, but he seems to have made some improvement. It's been pretty touch and go my humidifier gave out last night and his breathing got more rapid. We bought a warm mist humidifier that we are now taking back in the morning as i can't do a little teepee over his cage so he gets more mist and it actually seemed to make his breathing worse so we are getting a cool mist one tomorrow instead.

I met a rat breeder and we got to talking Mazuri is the only food for rats and other small animals in the area something she isn't happy about as her rats don't do good on it but she hasn't been able to get anything else well there is the cheap walmart brand but that is probably worse. She also told me that there isn't a good rat vet in the area and that she has actually had more luck self treating then taking them to the vet.

How she self treats is by using Colloidal Silver and putting a drop on the ill rat's nose every hour she claims she has successfully treated RI's with it. I am not sure how much truth there is to this but i have used Sovereign Silver for sinus infections and bronchitis myself before by putting a drop in each nostril and ingesting 2 drop so i know it does help i have also used it for treating cuts on the dogs and our birds before. I thought i would throw this out that and ask everyone's opinion on it and if i should try using it and see if it would help any, but i won't risk it if you think it will make him worse.


Now for some good news Zorro weighed about 3.3oz 24 hours ago i weighed him again at the same time today and durm roll please.....he has gained a little over half an ounce! Woot he is now a bit over 4 oz i am taking that as some good news today he also has been grooming and he climbed on top of his hide and squeaked at me until i woke up saw him and went over to give him a little scratch, apparently satisfied he went back inside the hide and curled up to sleep.

His breathing is still rapid but he has eaten a lot more today then he did yesterday though that may be because every 1 to 2 hours we will go in there and pull the hide out and give him a good rub then try and coax him to eat. We have found that he won't eat at all unless we are in there and coaxing him to eat the moment he looses sight of us he stops we aren't sure why this is but at least he is eating. Today i broke up 5 Mazuri blocks so he could hold them easier as weak as he is and he has eaten nearly all of it along with a cracker he ate that this morning this afternoon he was more interested in the honey coated seeds and corn treat i had also put in there i am just glad to see him eat anything. Tomorrow we are going to the store and will get some applesauce and maybe some baby food veggies if anyone has luck getting them to eat any of the baby food veggies, i think i will try mixing some baby cereal with that instead of milk. For some reason he wouldn't eat cooked fresh veggies but he is eating the dried corn i wonder if he would eat some popcorn kernels or dry rice maybe some uncooked pasta would that even be good for him? I know he is miserable right now so i am trying to find anything that he will eat but i am not sure what people food exactly are okay keep in mind i am not making this the bulk of his food i am just trying to entice him to eat more by giving it to him as a treat. I was tempted to give him a bit of my pizza today but wasn't sure if he could have that so i didn't.

Also my avatar picture is Zorro a few days before he got sick he was playing peek a boo with us from his little hammock tee pee when we were cleaning the cage and we just had to snap a pic of him. He is a black masked rat hence the name Zorro our female is a masked champagne rat and we named her baby girl.
 
Forgot to ask we were going to bath baby girl she looks like a Himalayan lol because of the newspaper we had her on before we switched to paper towels would it be safe to bath him as well? While he is grooming he is missing some hard to reach spots should i leave it or just wipe him down with a damp rag? I don't want to make him more sick is why i am asking also any tips for bathing as this will be our first time doing it do i just have a small amount of warm water in the sink and rub her down with it or can i use dawn dish soap to give her a scrub down?
 
Wiping him down would be a good idea, if you see he's not struggling too much. If he is, then just leave it until he's stronger.

Honestly, your Baytril will do much more good than any colloidal silver. It makes me cringe to think a breeder is self medicating her rats, not even real medicines.
You could help your "new" vet learn about rats. That's how many of us start. We develop a good relationship with our vet and we learn together how to best treat these little guys.
It's going to take him a good week to two weeks for him to fully recover. Probably more. How long are you to give him meds?
 
soy infant formula does not have milk in it, but some types of baby cereal do.

He will likely need to be on baytril for 6 weeks ... at least 1 week after he seems to be better (or so I have been told).

As Jorats said, if you can find a vet that is willing to learn, you can work together. Almost 8 years ago, I bought both myself and my vet a copy of the Rat Health Care book (book section at www.ratfanclub.org). It was a big help and I have since purchased more recent additions. It costs less then $10, and is a valuable resource. Just ignore the page on home euthensia as it is inhumane.

Many of us order rat food in large bags and have it shipped. (Blocks can be put into freezer bags and is good for several months in the freezer for months.) I order Harlan Tech 2014 fromflowertown chin. in the prov. of Ontario but there are places you an order good rat blocks in the US.

Anyway, hope the baytril soon has Zorro feeling better.
 
Thanks for all the advice the vet said for 2 weeks i wrote down the name of the lab block and the book name also about the ensure and will look into that i have to do this quick i found out my internet is getting cut off tomorrow and last time that happened it was shut down at midnight you guys might not hear from me for a while thanks for the all the advice and help! Now i have to go inform other people and forums of my hiatus.
 
Got my Internet back on and wanted to give you guys an update Zorro is doing great he still has a few more days of the meds but is running around and playing a lot and best of all isn't sneezing anymore! Well his breathing does seem a little wheezy when the humidifier is turned off i think there was either some permanent damage or our air is just really dry which considering before the humidifier i had to put chap stick on every night or i woke up with peeling lips and my throat would be so dry it ached when i woke up it probably is just really dry.

The little female didn't get pregnant and we will be getting her a girlfriend soon and once we get a bigger cage we will be getting another male for him to be friends with. The current cage is okay for one rat or two young ones but there is no way two adults would be happy in it. I didn't want to get new ones until he was well as i was worried they might catch it i watch the female really close and she showed no signs of illness. We did find the actual source of it though it was the cat litter not something you want in with rats but it's the only thing that we have found that will stop the female from itching and sneezing like crazy. I had put a new litter pan in his cage and he had a small relapse that cleared up as soon as i removed the litter. We finally used shredded and balled up computer paper as litter and he is doing just fine with that best of all no dust!

The ensure and apple sauce worked great and he loves it! I actually had to stop giving him any ensure after a few days as his stools seemed to be very loose he had already gotten back some of his weight by then and was gaining steadily enough i felt comfortable doing so i still give him a little bit of applesauce from time to time as he loves it as a treat so does my sister for that matter Baby Girl doesn't like the applesauce but goes nuts for a Yogurt treat which we only let her have a small one once a day. I am weighing them everyday and Zorro who was 99 grams for his first weight and skin and bones is now 168 grams can you believe it!? Honestly he is a bit plump but hopefully us taking him out and having play time with him for an hour everyday will help with that he sure enjoys it and my nephew is now fascinated with the rats and they seem to be equally fascinated with him they will crawl all over him and curl up in his neck and groom themselves. Baby girl really likes to play with a little wooden ball and toilet paper middles while Zorro just likes to jump around and climb over boxes.

He is a goof the cage he is in now is 3 levels and he will climb up the ramp which is wire something i don't really like as i read that the wire cages can cause foot problems. He will stretch out with his feet dangling between the bars and his nose outside the bars of the cage it's so funny i guess he goes up there when he is hot as that is where the humidifier blows the top and bottom level doesn't get direct air from it he doesn't appear to be in distress when he does it and i can see him dreaming his feet will twitch and his nose and ears will move it's so cute. When he isn't there he is in his hide box curled up in a wash cloth or laying under his wheel for some strange reason. Or course that is only when he isn't playing or eating and drinking :)

I think i have been converted before i only really tolerated them and think they are cute now i will roll over in the night and see him just faintly jumping around and playing so i will stick my fingers in the bars he will come over and lick my fingers and rub against them and i will roll over and go back to sleep while he goes back to playing. He is beside my bed on a tv tray when he was so sick i wanted to be able to monitor him at all times and for some reason i haven't moved him i just enjoy him too much. My sister loves having Baby Girl in her room too at night she will see her running up down the levels and rolling around her toilet paper roll and it always makes her smile before she goes back to sleep.

Thank you for all the help and advice he probably only survived because of it his weight was so low and he was so weak i really didn't think he would make it even with the medication, but little Zorro is a survivor and just as strong as his name sake.
 
mamarat said:
What a great update. I'm so happy for you and your ratties.

I wanted to share some pictures from our first play session as you can see they are really fascinated by my nephew the cage in the background is baby girls cage it was an old parrot cage that i converted by cutting wood to fit the bottom and shelves that i glued to the bird perches i took two two by fours and cut them down then covered them in an old towel. I hope to have more stuff to fill it with later it's probably really big i know but i like for my animals to have lots of room to run around in. The blue cage is Zorro's i just took them they were the best i could get since he feels the need to shove his nose in the camera lol you wouldn't believe how many of them were of his nostrils i kept having to move around to get the pictures.

Could someone please tell me what Baby Girl is i know Zorro is a Black Masked rat though i don't know if he is dumbo or not, when we got Baby she has a Champagne colored mask over her eyes but that is gone now and a grey/brown smudge suddenly appeared on her nose washing it off didn't word so i am guess it's natural, but i have no idea what she is now the smudge is only on her nose no where else oh and are either of them dumbo?

http://s953.photobucket.com/albums/ae19/DamianAzrael/
 

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