Flea is gone

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

Vic, what other were the other ailments? I know it can sometimes be ear infections but unaware of what else.

Liver failure, liver tumours, and meningitis (all nasty things too wouldn't you know) that I've seen. Some types of stroke can also look very PT like.

Is Dex better given when caught early? or does it matter? with my vet out of town till the end of October, I doubt very much I can get it.

I think the thing with PT's is to catch them very early ... with any meds I've used I've seen a much better response when I've caught the symptoms very early on, say within the first 48 hours, and had them on meds within another 24 hours after that. Dex can be given later and is more effective than Galastop when some time has passed, but each day without it affects the response you see when it's started. For that reason I always have a stash of dex tablets in my ... well, stash!

 

[lilspaz68]

Sadly Jo is a real expert on true PT, as she and her vet have done a lot of necropsies and found it afterwards.

Please don't think I'm starting an arguement here, I'm not. In my previous post (which was in no way intened to be a critism of Jo) I mentioned using treatment anyway because I know that some things can mimic a PT so closely it's hard to believe ... but I've seen them do it. While I do always expect that it is a PT, and that is always at the top of my list for a diagnosis these being far and away the most common cause of the symptoms, I do feel it's important not to assume that it is a PT immediately ... but only because I have seen cases where the cause wasn't a PT.

Again, I wasn't critisising Jo for her choices, I was merely providing my own take on things and giving information based on my own experiences.

Jo I apologise to you if I have caused you any offence here, it was not intended.

There isn't any offence taken, some people aren't aware of this fact at all. She's the one I turned to when I first started experiencing PT myself and I now have 2 case histories on the Ratguide.com.

PT is such a variable thing, it can be sooo quick, they are wobbly and then gone, or stay around for months with or without abs/steroids.

 

[jorats]

Ooooh, I didn't know liver disease had the same kind of symptoms. And I never thought of meningitis.

For Flea, I believe it's a progressed state of PT. She's not eating anymore, unless I force her. The symptoms were so quick, unless I take into account her lack of interest in coming out of the cage for the last couple of weeks.
One day she's fine, the next she can't grab her food. She is 30 months old but was one of the rats I felt was in top shape.

 

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

There isn't any offence taken, some people aren't aware of this fact at all.

Ah, okay ... I know Jo from a few years ago myself you see ... and I also suffer from forum paranoia having been on a few rat forums where the atmosphere is, ummm, well, I think you know what I mean ... being a newbie here I'm just a bit fretful!

and I now have 2 case histories on the Ratguide.com.

Ohhh is that you! Hello! :lol:

 

[lilspaz68]

There isn't any offence taken, some people aren't aware of this fact at all.

Ah, okay ... I know Jo from a few years ago myself you see ... and I also suffer from forum paranoia having been on a few rat forums where the atmosphere is, ummm, well, I think you know what I mean ... being a newbie here I'm just a bit fretful!

and I now have 2 case histories on the Ratguide.com.

Ohhh is that you! Hello! :lol:

We are trying very hard to be "different" from some rat forums, non-judgmental and friendly. We are trying to see how respecting each other and not flaming works out...LOLOL.

Hi! :hello2

 

[SoA]

Oh Jo, I'm so sorry! She looks like such a sweetheart too. I'm sorry I can't offer any help It was heartbreaking to watch her try to eat that Cheerio.

 

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

We are trying to see how respecting each other and not flaming works out...LOLOL.

Now there's an idea I like! :lol:


Sorry Jo, I've OT'd your topic

 

[KristyR]

So heartbreaking... looks just like my sweet sweet Jake did. I'm so sorry for you and Flea. Yesterday was the one month anniversary of Jake's death. Wow, you'd think I'd have stopped crying by now!

Hugs :rose2:

 

[jorats]

I've been force feeding Flea, cause she can't hold on to her food to crunch and much anymore. She's been getting lots and I mean lots of Ensure via syringe, she's lapping it up like a trooper, enjoying it. She's very wobbly but damn, she's getting around again, she's alert and is even trying to eat the veggies I put in the cage.

Now, I've had pt sufferers go through a stage of "status quo", so I have to tell myself not to get my hopes up. But just in case, I'm starting her on Baytril and if this keeps up, I'm bringing her to my vet when she's back for some dex, or galastop, I need to go read up on that.

 

[lilspaz68]

I've been force feeding Flea, cause she can't hold on to her food to crunch and much anymore. She's been getting lots and I mean lots of Ensure via syringe, she's lapping it up like a trooper, enjoying it. She's very wobbly but damn, she's getting around again, she's alert and is even trying to eat the veggies I put in the cage.

Now, I've had pt sufferers go through a stage of "status quo", so I have to tell myself not to get my hopes up. But just in case, I'm starting her on Baytril and if this keeps up, I'm bringing her to my vet when she's back for some dex, or galastop, I need to go read up on that.

I hope your vet gives you the steroid, it can really bring around some short-term miracles for the fighters.

When's your vet due back?

 

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

or galastop, I need to go read up on that.

In my somewhat limited experience with Gala, it isn't effective unless given almost right away ... so I'd try dex first.

 

[lilspaz68]

Dex or Prednisone are your best choices. Pred is usually oral, and dexamethasone is usually injectable, although it is definitely the better one (faster acting, longer lasting than pred) vet's don't always have it on hand.

I have given Dex orally when my wee one started refusing injections, and it worked.

 

[jorats]

Oh, ok.

Anyone know the difference between Dex and pred?

 

[lilspaz68]

http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_horm ... solone.php

Prednisone and prednisolone are synthetic members of the glucocorticoid class of hormones. They are an intermediate acting, broad antiinflammatory, medication. They have less activity than dexamethasone or betamethasone, but exhibit greater activity than hydrocortisone.

Though prednisone and prednisolone are used in the same manner and equally as effective, they should not be confused with each other. Prednisone is activated by the liver into prednisolone. For this reason and because it is more easily absorbed, prednisolone is the drug of choice when hepatic disease or insufficiency is present.

Indications
Used as an antiinflammatory and immunosuppressant in the following:

Inner ear infections so called wry neck or head tilt

Adjunctive treatment in respiratory disorders such as pneumonia

Supportive/palliative treatment in the presence of tumors.

In severe itching

In treating shock to improve circulation

http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_horm ... hasone.php

Dexamethasone is a long acting florinated glucocorticoid with 25-30 times more potency than an equal weight of hydrocortisone. It is faster acting with longer duration than the intermediate oral agents prednisone and prednisolone.

Used as a quick agent to reduce inflammation in ear infections causing wry neck/head tilt.
Can be used as support therapy in URI (upper respiratory infection) unresponsive to antimicrobials alone, or in serious to advanced lung infections (e.g.,pnuemonia) to reduce allergic response (especially where pathogen suspected to be mycoplasma).
Also used for swelling caused by injury, cerebral edema, neoplasia, and septic shock.

 

[SQ]

Debbie Ducommun's book says not to use dex for more than 5 days as it can cause diabetes mellitus or insipidus in rats.
She says that pred is useful for long term treatment of advanced respir. disease, inner ear infection, pt and cancer. Since pred depresses the immune system you need to use an antibiotic with it. When stopping long term treatment, pred needs to be gradually reduced.

I have found that pred gave some of my rats months of good quality of life but we started the treatment before their symptoms became really bad and their tumors seemed to be slow growing (Caleb, Cindy). Pred hasn't seemed to help with other rats who had fast growing, aggressive tumors (Lois, Corrie). My vet said that pred works by reducing swelling in the tissues around the tumor, that it does not affect the actual tumor.

 

[jorats]

I see...

 

[mamarat2]

Flea had her first dose of pred... thanks Vic for giving me that push I needed!!

And I don't know if it's my imagination or what, but she seems much more alert tonight, actually comes to me when I call her name. A LOT less porphyrin. Keeping fingers crossed!!

Its amazing how quickly the pred works for them if it is going too. Keep my fingers crossed it does help!

 

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

Debbie Ducommun's book says not to use dex for more than 5 days as it can cause diabetes mellitus or insipidus in rats.

I've used dex for much longer than that in some of my rats (several months) and have never seen any adverse affects from long term use to date.

I use dex for PT's (actually I tend to use dex over anything else in any case) because it's much stronger and much more effective than other steroids. I can also get dex tablets, and regular oral doses are much better than injections I find ...injections can be unpredictable with regard to how long they last.

 

[Ratgirl@RatRitz]

And I don't know if it's my imagination or what, but she seems much more alert tonight, actually comes to me when I call her name. A LOT less porphyrin. Keeping fingers crossed!!

sounds good to me! How is she now?

 

[lilspaz68]

I am not surprised to hear that Flea may be doing better. The improvement can be quite dramatic....

*Shelagh waits impatiently for this morning's update*

I prefer Dex too and have used it on a more long term basis than 5 days for sure! When Ariel contracted PT and I put her on Dex she was on it for almost 5 weeks, and it gave her a happy quality of life for most of it, before the PT finally took her from me.