Ensuring the saftey of rats around other pets

[M0onkist]

When my boys were alive, we all lived up at the farm, and my grandmother's dog would sometimes go into the laundry room (which was on the main floor, and where the ratties were kept). The rat cage was up on an old school desk, and though I would never vouch for Girl's sanity (just waaaaay too long on energy and waaaaaaay too short on brains), she sniffed them once, then just ignored them the whole rest of the time they were alive. Occasionally she'd sniff at the cage, but no more than a passing sniff. It's possible though that though she hunts groundhogs and occasionally chases the barn cats, having an animal inside the house was 'different' to her. I don't really know. The boys completely ignored her in return, and I don't think the ever woke up from one of their siestas to sniff at her in return.

Now that I'm living back in the city, in an apartment with my boyfriend, there are no other pets - just Plumeria (and before she passed, Princess as well).

What breed are your dogs, RedGal?

 

[Cait]

Like everyone has already said, it can be done, but it also can be somewhat of an "inconvienence" for you and other people in your home to keep the dogs seperate from the rats. I am extremely anal about what animals I have in the same house after I had mice killed by rats due to mice's extreme ability to get out of just about any cage it seems. For a while it was no problem because I didn't have anything BUT rats. Then I got mice again and I frequently have nightmares about them escaping and getting into a rat cage and then BOOM, no more mice. I keep them on a whole 'nother floor from my rats but it is still a risk.

And then I got a dog. Luckily, Karly is a mix of two dogs not known for their prey drive nor hunting ability, although one is a herding dog. She is never ever alone with the rats, not even if they are caged. For the first few weeks she wasn't even allowed in my room to see them, and then gradually she would wander in if I left the door open (and if I said it was okay) and she'd sniff and look extremely interested the first few tines until she eventually ignored them. Once, I left one of the cage doors open on the boys' cage and my bedroom door open out of habit, as Karly was still fairly new to our house. I went to refill a water bottle and came back to see Karly laying on my floor in front of the cage. Karly was watching the rats take my laundry from my hamper and drag it back to their cage, for which they had to walk IN FRONT of her! It was the scariest thing ever, but she didn't do a thing. That is only pure LUCK though. She could have easily killed/ate all of my boys and it was by far the dumbest thing I've ever done since having her home. My point is, it only takes one time, one mistake. Your best bet is to get the CN which has those cool door locks, small bar spacing, and just don't let the dogs alone with them. And shut the doors!

 

[Chel]

After reading *most* of this thread I agree that leaving rats and other animals together without supervision is just an unnecessary risk, but everyone's situation and pets are different. I have two rescued dogs, both mixed breeds, one could care less about my rats and the other is infatuated. I only see my dogs when I'm at home with my mom but that is all summer. My solution is that I leave the rats in my bedroom, on a desk. I have my bedroom door and there is a hallway door that is shut as well. the more obstacles the better. They are never around the rats. When I bring the rats home I put the dogs outside before the rats come in the house, the only way the dogs know there are rats is when they smell me, but they have never been actively looking for them, so I think my situation is pretty good. 2 doors, desk and secrecy.

 

[ryelle]

My friend had a dog that didnt bother with the rats either. He would go sniff the cage once in a while, and one of the rats would lick his nose and the dog returned the favor.. but the other gave him a nasty bite on the nose one time and wouldnt let go. He was a vicious rat though. He bit my friends 3yr old son and wouldnt let go either. Was the kids fault for putting his fingers in the bars when he knew not to, but it left a nasty bite on the dog and the kid

 

[Dahlas]

You are absolutely correct in not allowing your rats anywhere near your bird because they are quite capable of killing it in the blink of an eye. I have seen posts on rat forums telling a story of someones rat killing their cockatiel. It was very tragic for all involved.
I am also not saying that training your dog well cannot cut back on instances of acting out on their instincts, but animals are unpredictable and even the best trained dogs in the world are capable of acting out against the training that they have received. No amount of training eliminates every ounce of instinctual behaviour.
We have all heard stories of dogs who have lived their entire lives around children, who were well trained and loving members of the family, who all of a sudden attack one of them.
I had a friend in my early twenties who, at around seven years old, had to receive over 200 stitches to her lower face when their beloved, well trained, lived its whole life around children, Labrador Retriever literally ripped her face off for no reason. Whenever people tell me that they can predict every single thing that their well trained dog is capable of doing, I think of my friends face and the amount of surgery she endured and would still be scarred horribly for her entire life.
Animals can be trained to be well behaved, but they will never reason and think like we do and will forever be unpredictable. As long as people keep that in mind, always train their dogs no matter what their size, and treat them as animals and not humans, then we can cut down considerably on tragic accidents.

The only thing I would like to dispute is it is never for "no reason". It may have been nothing they noticed but from the dogs point of view there was a reason.....there is always signs and signals....... just most people can not read them.
Animals are not unpredictable. They know exactly what they are doing....and give us lots of warnings. Unfortunately people don't understand animal behavior and can't understand what the animal is saying......

 

[redgal]

My brother's dog, who never showed any interest in my niece's hamster (kept in her bedroom) and therefore was not viewed as a danger .... managed to get access to him and eat him :sad3:

Oh that's awful...was the dog left unattended? what cage was the hamster in? Poor guy :sad3:

Dahlas - I totally agree.

 

[redgal]

My friend had a dog that didnt bother with the rats either. He would go sniff the cage once in a while, and one of the rats would lick his nose and the dog returned the favor.. but the other gave him a nasty bite on the nose one time and wouldnt let go. He was a vicious rat though. He bit my friends 3yr old son and wouldnt let go either. Was the kids fault for putting his fingers in the bars when he knew not to, but it left a nasty bite on the dog and the kid

Uh oh, that's something else I'll have to watch out for b/c I have a very curious toddler (although she is growing up around lots of animals so she learns pretty quick!)!

 

[lilratsy43]

I had a friend in my early twenties who, at around seven years old, had to receive over 200 stitches to her lower face when their beloved, well trained, lived its whole life around children, Labrador Retriever literally ripped her face off for no reason. Whenever people tell me that they can predict every single thing that their well trained dog is capable of doing, I think of my friends face and the amount of surgery she endured and would still be scarred horribly for her entire life.
Animals can be trained to be well behaved, but they will never reason and think like we do and will forever be unpredictable. As long as people keep that in mind, always train their dogs no matter what their size, and treat them as animals and not humans, then we can cut down considerably on tragic accidents.

Same thing happened to my cousin, he was like 9 and the dog was a Lab mix...They had had him for years with no signs of aggression. I do not think he got 200 stitches, but it was a pretty bad bite that did require stitches...

 

[eagle]

Ok, I will share my story. I had a Rottie/Shep mix that I got when she was about 3 months old. She went through pet training and was great very obedient. As she got older the aggression started showing, first she was mean to my old pom and then started on the cats. I became a pet trainer myself and was able to keep her under control or so I thought. When I first started getting rats she would just sit on the edge of the bed within inches of the cage just staring at the rats. I never had the rats out when she was in the house. I made the mistake of letting her in the house one day and as was her habit she ran straight to the bedroom. I had apparently not latched the rat cage door correctly. I remember being so tired that morning and it was my fault. In the time it had taken me to get from the back of the house to the bedroom she had already killed one rat and had crushed another rat (still alive). My rat died in my arms a few minutes later. I was so devistated and needless to say the dog never went past the kitchen again. Her aggression had gotten to the point that she turned on me one day. I had her PTS 2 weeks later. I was in denial that I could still turn her around.
My cats pay very little attention to the rats, but I would never trust them together unless I was with them. I have had my cats in my lap while holding my rats. For the most part my cats are scared of the rats and I am ok with that. My other dogs will sniff at Lizzies cage and she will in no certain terms tell them to go away.
No point in taking risks. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ryelle]

My friend had a dog that didnt bother with the rats either. He would go sniff the cage once in a while, and one of the rats would lick his nose and the dog returned the favor.. but the other gave him a nasty bite on the nose one time and wouldnt let go. He was a vicious rat though. He bit my friends 3yr old son and wouldnt let go either. Was the kids fault for putting his fingers in the bars when he knew not to, but it left a nasty bite on the dog and the kid

Uh oh, that's something else I'll have to watch out for b/c I have a very curious toddler (although she is growing up around lots of animals so she learns pretty quick!)!

This was a seriously agressive rat. He would chase after you to bite you. It was VERY hard changing his food every day, and even harder cleaning his cage. Most rats can learn that a finger in the bars doesn't mean food. I never feed my guys through the bars, so if i stick my finger inside they don't expect food

 

[jorats]

When I had my dog Jax... he was never allowed near the cage. He was allowed in the same room if I was around but he could still not go near the cage.
I'm currently training my kittens to not bother with the rat cage and it's slow going...

 

[Jessekah]

Wow, must say its never really crossed my mind.

I have a mouse cage/ rat cage in my room, and 2 cats who have free access whether I am home or not. I don't know if it because they are indoor cats, but I have no worries about them hurting my mice or rats. I did have mice before I got the cats, so maybe they don't see them as anything special other than friends?

Is anyone else in this situation?

 

[sausage4ever]

I have had rats and dogs for the past while now and I guess I'll share my stories. When I had my first rat Sasha, Penny (our cocker/poodle X) was a puppy. She grew up with the rat (I only had one---ignorance) and was afraid of the rat ball (ignorance again). I soon realized that the rat could run around outside of her ball without Penny doning anything. When I got Teddy and Eli I continued the tradition letting the rats run even if the dog was around. Never any problems. Then we got Bianca (Bulldog). Bianca loved the rats, loved to jump up on their cage! I would let her stick her whole head in the cage and that seemed to make her happy, but I would not let the rats run when she was around (as much as I loved her, it was too risky). Mind you if she was still with us she would be allowed around the rats, as we used to let the bird free-fly and she would do nothing (after a few corrections). After Bianca left, I could let the rats free-run a lot more becuase there was only Penny around. We've had Penny out with Cadbury (a bunny we found), the cavies and doves. SHe has always been good until one day Eli and Teddy were out running and my sister said as a joke "Go get 'em Penny". And in that instant Penny flew acrooss the room straight at the rats, and with a "NO!" she stopped dead in her tracks. We have never done that again and Penny is still allowed to be around when the rats are. Why? She is honestly afraid of small mammals yet she chases birds, squirrels and bunnies OUTSIDE, everything in the house is off limits.

Now the cats are a different story. The mouse stays in my room, off limits from the cats. The dog is allowed in when we're around but the cats are never allowed in. The cats have met the rats face to face bt only with me holding the rats. I don't think that Carnage will ever be able to be trusted with the rats, maybe Phoenix but never Carnage but that's not too much of a problem since I won't be getting any more ratties after this batch.

 

[ryelle]

Wow, must say its never really crossed my mind.

I have a mouse cage/ rat cage in my room, and 2 cats who have free access whether I am home or not. I don't know if it because they are indoor cats, but I have no worries about them hurting my mice or rats. I did have mice before I got the cats, so maybe they don't see them as anything special other than friends?

Is anyone else in this situation?

Someone i know has 3 indoor cats now, but she used to only have 2. Before she got the 2nd, she had the first cat which was older - about 4 years old and two or three rats. The cat never even blinked an eyelid at the rats. She got the second cat, which was a kitten, and it went crazy over the rat cage - trying to knock it over etc. I think some animals are bothered, and some aren't. I think it might have something to do with already having rats / mice beforehand, and training the kittens while they are still young. I have no idea how her knew 3rd cat would react to rats - they lost their last one a few weeks ago - and we all pray she won't get another

 

[redgal]

Ok, I will share my story. I had a Rottie/Shep mix that I got when she was about 3 months old. She went through pet training and was great very obedient. As she got older the aggression started showing, first she was mean to my old pom and then started on the cats. I became a pet trainer myself and was able to keep her under control or so I thought. When I first started getting rats she would just sit on the edge of the bed within inches of the cage just staring at the rats. I never had the rats out when she was in the house. I made the mistake of letting her in the house one day and as was her habit she ran straight to the bedroom. I had apparently not latched the rat cage door correctly. I remember being so tired that morning and it was my fault. In the time it had taken me to get from the back of the house to the bedroom she had already killed one rat and had crushed another rat (still alive). My rat died in my arms a few minutes later. I was so devistated and needless to say the dog never went past the kitchen again. Her aggression had gotten to the point that she turned on me one day. I had her PTS 2 weeks later. I was in denial that I could still turn her around.
My cats pay very little attention to the rats, but I would never trust them together unless I was with them. I have had my cats in my lap while holding my rats. For the most part my cats are scared of the rats and I am ok with that. My other dogs will sniff at Lizzies cage and she will in no certain terms tell them to go away.
No point in taking risks. Just my 2 cents worth.

Aw, that is such a sad story. I am so sorry for your rats and for your dog - so many losses. :sad3:

Thankfully, neither of my dogs are at all aggressive. Although I believe that every dog has a threshold just like humans have a threshold for anger and frustration so I continue to learn everything I can.

 

[redgal]

I just wanted to say thanks so much for all these responses - I didn't really think it would be a 'hot topic' but it's giving me lots to think carefully about. :thumbup:

 

[M0onkist]

Just wondering, what types of dogs do you have?



Well, it's a good topic you know - no surprise it's hot!

 

[redgal]

I have two coonhounds. Neither of which have ever been hunting but the instinct is in their blood. Having said that they have been great around my friend's cats and her rabbit and my MIL's bird and seem to know when a pet is a pet but still, I would never take any risks.

 

[M0onkist]

I totally understand.

Coonhounds are beautiful dogs!