Dozer Question about Meds

[lilspaz68]

Hmmm...Dr Munn and other people I know all said that if there is no heart condition the meds just don't do anything and there will be no improvement and you can basically rule out heart conditions. Did you explain to her that its only a diagnostic dosing for 3-4 days?

 

[Dahlas]

I will talk with her more today......I am thinking that probably 3-4 days would be no problem.....
What she said was that if there wasn't any heart problem that the drugs would/could affect the kidneys and or liver......she explained how they worked. They are used to remove fluid from around the heart.......if there isn't fluid there they put added strain on the kidneys.
This conversation took place while I was at work......it was very busy so she didn't have my full attention.......so I could have misunderstood and she was talking about more long term.

 

[SQ]

As Shelagh said, enalapril is used by vets for diagnostic purposes. If it helps then the rat has a heart problem, is kept on the enalapril and more heart meds such as atenolol are added. Enalapril is said to be safe for use to diagnose heart problems.

Lasix is to remove fluid from the lungs or around the heart so it is often needed for rats with heart problems. It is also used with rats having respir. problems causing a build up of fluid in the lungs. Rats are given as much as they need and if given too much can become dehydrated so important to check hydration.

Your Rat Health Care book talks about this.
I don't know how else you would diagnose a heart problem as there are many different types of heart disease and they do not necessarily cause the rat to have an enlarged heart.

All the best to you and Dozer at the vets.

 

[Dahlas]

I took 5 rats with me to meet our new vet. She examined Dozer and thought when she listened to him that she detected a heart murmur. But also could her some respiratory issues as well......
We talked about many things during my two hour visit (she had a free afternoon and gave it to me so we could talk rats)
She gave me lasix and enalapril and told me to give them to him on alternating days......as well as keep him on Doxy and Baytril.
Is this how you guys use them.....lasix one day and enalapirl the next day? I have to call her on Monday to let her know if there is any change.....
Honey also got examined and she strongly thinks it is an ear infection....and so I will continue with the Baytril and have added Doxy as well.....
Maisy, Tabitha and Jayden went with for morale support ....the vet looked them over and they got a clean bill of health.
My new vet is very nice and seems knowledgeable about rats ( she does great spays and neuters on baby rats) but admits she has not treated a lot and that people who have lots of rat experience like my friends on the rat Shack probably no more then she does in certain areas.
She is very open to learning new things.
Dozer seems a tiny bit brighter today. :thumbup:

 

[lilspaz68]

lasix and enalapril are to be given twice a day and concurrently, not alternate days. I would advise just doing that instead of calling your vet.

Lasix (furosemide) (from http://ratguide.com/meds/urinary_tract_ ... semide.php)
2 mg/kg to 5 mg/kg , PO, SQ, IM , q12hrs.

Enalapril (from http://ratguide.com/meds/cardiovascular ... aleate.php)
0.25 mg/lb , PO , BID (twice a day)

and the ratguide's page on CHF
http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascul ... ailure.php

 

[Dahlas]

Thanks Shelagh

 

[Godmother]

Crossing my fingers for Dozer & Honey! :heart: :heart:

 

[Dahlas]

Thanks Godmother......oh I am so worried that something will happen to them because of my stupidity.......I am trying to do my best but meds and amounts are not my strong point.

If I give the amount she prescribed twice a day (instead of once a day on every other day) for a few days and see what happens that should be okay??
Dozer certainly doesn't seem worse.....maybe a bit brighter. I will give him a dose of each tonight.....and tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[ryelle]

Maybe PM Shelagh with your rats weights and the concentration of the meds and see if the mix of the two dosages are ok?

Im no good with mathmatics or numbers of any sort and it all confuses me aswell If the vet doesn't tell me the right dose there and then i am so lost

 

[SQ]

I would forget about the doxy and give Heather baytril + amoxicilliin (or clavamox) or chorplam. Also an anti inflammatory to lessen or prevent permanent damage.

As Shelagh said, lasix and enalapril twice a day, every day.
If it helps, then other heart meds are added.

 

[Dahlas]

Just wanted to say a huge Thank you to everyone for their help. Dozer is feeling much better. His appetite is not back to 100% but it is good.......he is much more energetic......almost back to himself. Moving around the cage, waiting eagerly for out time. It is wonderful to see and we are all so pleased........Right now instead of laying in the hammock looking worn out he is at the door staring at me to take him out a bit longer....and that is what I am going to do!!

 

[lilspaz68]

Just wanted to say a huge Thank you to everyone for their help. Dozer is feeling much better. His appetite is not back to 100% but it is good.......he is much more energetic......almost back to himself. Moving around the cage, waiting eagerly for out time. It is wonderful to see and we are all so pleased........Right now instead of laying in the hammock looking worn out he is at the door staring at me to take him out a bit longer....and that is what I am going to do!!

Wonderful wonderful news!!!! :joy:

Keep us updated, I love these updates :cuddle:

 

[SQ]

:thumbup:

 

[jorats]

:joy:

 

[Dahlas]

How long does he stay on the meds? is this for the rest of his life? I will call the vet tomorrow and give her an update and see what she says......
I am so very, very happy :happydance:

 

[henry's_mum]

:happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

 

[lilspaz68]

Yes he will have to stay on them all his life. I often stabilize a rat and then reduce or remove the lasix, see if they are still stable and then just enalapril until they have a bit of a downturn...then I add a little more enalapril and see how they respond...if there's not enough then I will add back the lasix.

 

[SQ]

When the enalapril helps we add atenolol.
I get my vet to xray the rattie and if the heart is enlarged then digoxin is added as well.
With lasix you give as much as is needed and both the amount and frequency can be decreased or increased as needed. You will need to watch his hydration level. Important to buy supplies from your vet so you can give sub-Q fluids in case he becomes dehydrated when no vet is available.

Yes, heart meds are for the remainder of his life.
They do not cure the problem, just manage the symptoms so your rattie can have a good quality life until his heart is so bad that the meds do not help enough any more.

 

[LA]

YAY that's wonderful news :joy:

 

[mamarat]

:happydance: So happy for you and your sweetie. :hugs: