Dog vs Rats behaviour
- Thread starter maria-mar
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Moon
Well-Known Member
That may help. Him having access to the rats is just too dangerous right now. He needs to get more comfortable with the situation and with you before you will be able to do any real rat desensitization safely.
That's what i thought Moon. He seems to think they must be realy yummy... and it scares me 
He's such a sweet boy though, i'm gonna try to keep him with us at least until he's completely healed (the vet said it should take about a month). Then, the best thing seems to be to give a chance to other of the dogs on the pound... they deserve a caring foster home too, and i'm really afraid of forgetting the door open or that he puts the gate down and attacks the cages when i'm not looking.
He's such a sweet boy though, i'm gonna try to keep him with us at least until he's completely healed (the vet said it should take about a month). Then, the best thing seems to be to give a chance to other of the dogs on the pound... they deserve a caring foster home too, and i'm really afraid of forgetting the door open or that he puts the gate down and attacks the cages when i'm not looking.
TorachiKatashi
Well-Known Member
Before I start, I'll say that there are as many different dog training methods as there are dog trainers in the world. There's no absolute right away to do anything, it all depends on who you ask, and what they've had the most success doing. I'm sure people will disagree with my methods, and I'll disagree with theirs, which is why I haven't read any of the posts before mine here and will not read any posts after mine, to avoid this turning into a flame war. All I can do is give you one of many views, and hope you find something that works for you and your cute little guy, whether it's my method or not.
I'll also point out that from the picture you posted, he definitely could have some Terrier mixed into him. Although I'm sure you had no intentions to, I want to stress that this means that this is likely a dog that can never, ever be trusted around your rats, no matter how well he seems to get along with them in the future. All it takes is one of them moving in such a way as to set his instincts off, and they'll be gone. So please, take extra care to make sure that he's never anywhere where he could potentially get to your rats. This includes being able to nip at feet and tails that may be hanging outside the bars of their cage.
In regards to the barking - the big point I want to make is that a correction after the dog has already barked, is useless. You need to correct the dog BEFORE he barks. By watching him, you can become familiar with his body language and be able to anticipate a bark before it happens. I prefer to correct with a Martingale collar - done properly, it's the most safe and humane way to correct a dog. It causes them no pain, it simply delivers the message that whatever they're doing (in this case, preparing to bark) is unacceptable. On the other hand, you should praise them when he is able to sit comfortably within the same distance of the rats without barking. (Most people will recommend food rewards, but I entirely disagree and feel that physical praise is not only more effective, but helps build a stronger bond between you and the dog without turning to bribery.) Be careful not to switch back and forth between correcting and rewarding over and over, it can be very confusing. If you need to correct, then stick to correcting for that session. This should all be done on-leash and for prescribed periods of time - when you're not training with him, don't allow him into the room with the rats.
I would also recommend, if you expect this dog to be staying with you for any length of time, to set up a barrier around the rat cage that he cannot cross. Not a physical barrier like a baby gate; an imaginary line that he cannot cross, or even an actual line drawn out in duct tape. If he attempts to walk past this line, correct him. If you can him already past this line, yank him out. You do not want to hurt him, obvious, but you want it to be jarring enough that it sticks out in his mind - enough that he stumbles a bit on his feet. Same thing, reward him when he's around the line without crossing over it, and don't switch back and forth a lot between correcting and rewarding.
Crate training is also something you should strongly consider. I think it would help greatly with managing this dog, and would be a great plus to his getting adopted. Most educated dog parents would love to adopt a dog who has already been crate trained.
That's about all I can think of for now. I hope I've been somewhat helpful. If you have any questions, please, feel free to shoot me a PM.
I'll also point out that from the picture you posted, he definitely could have some Terrier mixed into him. Although I'm sure you had no intentions to, I want to stress that this means that this is likely a dog that can never, ever be trusted around your rats, no matter how well he seems to get along with them in the future. All it takes is one of them moving in such a way as to set his instincts off, and they'll be gone. So please, take extra care to make sure that he's never anywhere where he could potentially get to your rats. This includes being able to nip at feet and tails that may be hanging outside the bars of their cage.
In regards to the barking - the big point I want to make is that a correction after the dog has already barked, is useless. You need to correct the dog BEFORE he barks. By watching him, you can become familiar with his body language and be able to anticipate a bark before it happens. I prefer to correct with a Martingale collar - done properly, it's the most safe and humane way to correct a dog. It causes them no pain, it simply delivers the message that whatever they're doing (in this case, preparing to bark) is unacceptable. On the other hand, you should praise them when he is able to sit comfortably within the same distance of the rats without barking. (Most people will recommend food rewards, but I entirely disagree and feel that physical praise is not only more effective, but helps build a stronger bond between you and the dog without turning to bribery.) Be careful not to switch back and forth between correcting and rewarding over and over, it can be very confusing. If you need to correct, then stick to correcting for that session. This should all be done on-leash and for prescribed periods of time - when you're not training with him, don't allow him into the room with the rats.
I would also recommend, if you expect this dog to be staying with you for any length of time, to set up a barrier around the rat cage that he cannot cross. Not a physical barrier like a baby gate; an imaginary line that he cannot cross, or even an actual line drawn out in duct tape. If he attempts to walk past this line, correct him. If you can him already past this line, yank him out. You do not want to hurt him, obvious, but you want it to be jarring enough that it sticks out in his mind - enough that he stumbles a bit on his feet. Same thing, reward him when he's around the line without crossing over it, and don't switch back and forth a lot between correcting and rewarding.
Crate training is also something you should strongly consider. I think it would help greatly with managing this dog, and would be a great plus to his getting adopted. Most educated dog parents would love to adopt a dog who has already been crate trained.
That's about all I can think of for now. I hope I've been somewhat helpful. If you have any questions, please, feel free to shoot me a PM.
Moon
Well-Known Member
TorachiKatashi said:
This depends entirely on the dog. Some are not inclined to work for any level of physical stimulus and aren't terribly concerned with pleasing their people. Especially in a situation like this where safety is paramount, a food reward could be ideal... or a big cuddle session... or a special toy.
Telling people to never use food rewards is as bad as telling people to only use food rewards, when it should be dictated by the learning style of the dog and what works best for them.
Sorry, i'm done trainning him regarding the rats. He's not coming close to them ever again!... Just seems the safest thing to do.
He's not a baby dog you can easily teach anymore... he's an old guy who lived on the streets for a long time... he just really cares about sleeping x)
Spot enjoys human company a lot, but he's not very oriented to learning. Poor old fella suffered enough during his lifetime
About the barking, that's exactly what i'm doing
He whines a lot so it's easy to see when he's about to bark. But i just tell him NO before he does it, and it seems to be working ok. I'm not confortable with choke collars... and wouldn't call the use of them "human".
He's not a baby dog you can easily teach anymore... he's an old guy who lived on the streets for a long time... he just really cares about sleeping x)
Spot enjoys human company a lot, but he's not very oriented to learning. Poor old fella suffered enough during his lifetime
About the barking, that's exactly what i'm doing
He whines a lot so it's easy to see when he's about to bark. But i just tell him NO before he does it, and it seems to be working ok. I'm not confortable with choke collars... and wouldn't call the use of them "human".
Moon
Well-Known Member
maria-mar said:
Martingale collars aren't technically choke collars, more "restriction" collars... but I think you're making a wise choice to limit his foster time with you to just his healing time. He probably has a terrier type background, and if he was on the streets he may be pretty good at "hunting" smaller animals. But, now that he's fostered with you, potential adopters will know that he's not safe with small animals and he will hopefully not go to a home with any, and hopefully not end up being returned at some point!
Hmmm i see i don't know enough about this kind of training collars... Never needed to research it before!
Yeah, i'm heart broken, taking care of him is making me love him more everyday. If it wasn't for the rats, i'd just adopt him. He doesn't have that much chance of being adopted though Moon... the people at the pound said, all the babies are easily adopted, but for an old guy like him, sometimes it never happens
Yeah, i'm heart broken, taking care of him is making me love him more everyday. If it wasn't for the rats, i'd just adopt him. He doesn't have that much chance of being adopted though Moon... the people at the pound said, all the babies are easily adopted, but for an old guy like him, sometimes it never happens
Moon
Well-Known Member
maria-mar said:He doesn't have that much chance of being adopted though Moon... the people at the pound said, all the babies are easily adopted, but for an old guy like him, sometimes it never happens
I know, older dogs always have a harder time of it. But your rats being in danger and him probably being frustrated trying to get at them is not an ideal situation either
Yeah... i just took another dog in so he'd have a free box in the pound. I'll visit him on monday and do everything i can so he's adopted... The dog i took in is pretty awesome with the rats. I don't want to go through this again so i may very well adopt her
