different size pupils?

[temblabamomo]

Quinn was in to see Dr. P on Saturday, and Dr. P pointed out that the little guy's pupils are two drastically different sizes. The eyes themselves are normal.

We were there because Quinn's been a little under the weather lately, not his usual playful self. He started having wee sneezy fits last week, so I took him in Saturday for meds. Dr. P is hoping the meds perk him up, but as far as the eyes it's probably something neuro.

It got me thinking and I wondered if the little guy has experienced a seizure. There have been two occasions where I approached his cage and he was incredibly spooked, bouncing off the cage walls (very uncharacteristic) and acting very very freaked. Aren't drastic personality changes like that linked to seizures? He also sometimes slumps over to one side when he eats.

Aside from having experienced some very minor seizures, I can't think of what else would make his pupils stay two different sizes. Thoughts please?

 

[victoria]

Any symptoms of PT? It can affect the size of pupils sometimes too.

 

[temblabamomo]

Aside from having a bit of difficulty at times with holding food, none. At times he has no problem, other times he has a bit of difficulty. He has been this way since I got him, roughly 2 months ago. Wouldn't PT have progressed by now?

 

[victoria]

PT can be slow growing, but you would see consistency in symptoms. Is he ever confused or disoriented? How old is he?

 

[temblabamomo]

Not sure how old he is. Between 1 and 2 if I had to guess.
The only confusion/disorientation I've seen were those 2 occasions where he was completely totally freaked out. He just seemed super scared of something and would not let me touch him and cowered and hid for several hours. The first time, when I reached in to touch him he jumped out of his skin and began climbing up and down the cage bars very quickly. He never climbs bars. It was very scary to see him acting that way, but by the next morning he was his happy normal little self.

 

[temblabamomo]

I normally don't bump topics, but....*bumps*
Any other thoughts? I've never dealt with a neuro issue before, am worried about my little man :/

 

[victoria]

It does sound more likely he is having seizures and not a PT, but I don't have anything more to offer. The most important thing you can do now is to try to minimize falling hazards in the cage. What does your vet think?

 

[temblabamomo]

My vet didn't really have any thoughts other than to say it was a neuro issue. Unfortunately, while he is savvy with a lot of rat basics, he doesn't have a whole lot of experience with more complex issues.

I know there's no sure fire way to figure out what's going on with him. I'll keep an eye on him, and hope he doesn't get worse. Him and his buddy have a one level cage, with a very low shelf added in, so no worries about falling. But honestly, they could have a double CN all to themselves and they'd both still just stay on the bottom sleeping all day. Thanks a million for your input

 

[victoria]

There are vet forums, very much like this one. Can you ask him to ask his colleagues for advice there?

 

[Fidget]

I didn't realize they had pupils. All I see is black or red. Are they noticeable with the naked eye (in better eyes than mine) or do you need equipment to see them?
Did you personally notice a difference between his eyes before this episode and after it?

 

[lilspaz68]

Percy showing off his lovely pupils

and Hope showing hers off in pink eyes

 

[temblabamomo]

I didn't realize they had pupils. All I see is black or red. Are they noticeable with the naked eye (in better eyes than mine) or do you need equipment to see them?
Did you personally notice a difference between his eyes before this episode and after it?

If you shine a light at their eyes you can see pupils. I don't usually go around looking in the boys' faces with a flashlight, so I don't know if his eyes have been this way since I got him, or it only just happened. Wouldn't have noticed it at all if Dr. P hadn't looked at his eyes with the little doctor eye exam light thingy.

@ lilspaz - I wish I'd logged on before I left the house this morning, will have to wait til I get home to see your pics.

 

[jorats]

I wish I could help with the pupils... this is new to me.
But... if he's not showing any signs of anything else, I really don't think I'd let it bother me, not until other symptoms show up.

 

[temblabamomo]

I wish I could help with the pupils... this is new to me.
But... if he's not showing any signs of anything else, I really don't think I'd let it bother me, not until other symptoms show up.

Yeah, my thoughts too.
He's just "off" lately, and I don't think it's old age. He's always been a little oddball, but lately he's not himself.

 

[Dazzle87]

I know concussions in people can do that?

Also, I'm hypoglycemic, so I know when you have really low blood sugar your pupils can become unequally dilated.

 

[jorats]

I wonder if pred might be something you could try if it is indeed neuro?

 

[temblabamomo]

I wonder if pred might be something you could try if it is indeed neuro?

I thought about that, and will ask when we are back for his re-check. Unfortunately, my vet isn't very familiar at all with various kinds of neuro issues and treatments, so I'm not sure how he'll feel about that. His initial thought was Quinn could possibly have an ear infection (although he displays no classic symptoms), and said something going on in the ear could affect the eye, and since we're doing antibiotics for him already the vet wanted to wait and see if his ear theory was right and if the eyes changed.

I have a Prednisolone suspension that was prescribed about 10 months ago for another rat. The expiry date is something like 2013. A) Is is really possible for meds to last that long? and B) is that something we could try with him, just to see? I'm not sure what the difference is between that and just Prednisone. I guess I"m just already thinking ahead, in case the vet isn't down with giving me any.

 

[victoria]

Meds can last that long, it depends how they're compounded and stored and the only difference between Prenisone and Prednisolone is where it's processed by the body.

Honestly, even though he's not showing classical PT symptoms, I wouldn't rule it out. I had a rat that was "off" for weeks and I never suspected PT because she did not have any of the usual symptoms. We ruled out everything with the vet before we tried Pred and by the end, she had the typical PT clubbed paws and no balance at all. I think most vet use Pred for neuro issues in rats as it reduces inflammation and can take some of the edge off for most neuro issues.

 

[crumbilina]

My girl Cocoa had 2 different size pupils when they were at "normal" dilation (like in everyday lighting). I tried to find a picture for you but couldn't. She was fine... no neuro issues at all... Lived to be 2.5 years old. When the pupils constricted they were the same size. I thought it was odd so I made a note of it

Im not sure if this helps, but I at least wanted to let you know. I actually didn't think anything of it... she was acting normal so I just kept a watch over her

 

[temblabamomo]

Went home tonight and found "Prelone Syrup", aka prednisolone. 3 mg/ml. It was never supposed to be refrigerated, and has sat at room temperature for about a year. Expiry date is May 2012. Does this stuff really last that long?

If so, should I give it a go, or wait til we see the vet for re-check?

Went home to clean the cage tonight, Quinners was actually pretty perky. He wasnt rubbing at his nose like he has been and I heard no sneezes, so maybe meds clearing up that congestion has him acting a bit more like himself. Ma said his eye was squinty last night, today they are normal. Still drastically different pupils, and the eye with the large pupil is *slightly* bulgy, you can hardly tell the difference. I can't recall if that eye has always been slightly more out or if it's a recent thing.