Clover, is gone.

[lilspaz68]

How much does Clover weigh and then we can double check the doses.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

435 grams.

Sorry the 385 was Ivy she went along for the ride and got a check up.

 

[user 78]

You mixed the Doxy in with the Baytril? I would strongly suggest not doing that for the next batch. There's no way to get an accurate dosage for both of the medications with them being mixed like that. I honestly hate to suggest it, because it's a waste of meds, but could you mix up another batch of each separately? Like I said, you can't get an accurate dosage for either medication. There's also the consideration that the Doxy dosages are different than the Baytril dosages. And yes, cc and ml are the same thing.

If you mix:
1ml 10% Baytril with 2mls of baby food/ensure/whatever your suspension would be 50mg/ml. Clover's dosage would be .09cc twice a day.

Mix 100mg Doxy with 1ml of baby food/ensure/whatever, your suspension would be 100mg/ml, and Clover's dosage would be .02cc.

Through some rather freaky math, the Mix you're currently giving her is a concentration of approx 23mg/ml for the Baytril, and 15.4mg/ml for the Doxy. She would need .19cc for the Baytril dosage, and only .11cc for the Doxy dosage. So if you're giving her .1cc, she's getting roughly the correct Doxy dosage, but not the correct Baytril dosage. You could, technically, continue with this suspension. It would be closer to the low end dosage of Baytril than the higher end dosage, which is what's suggested for bad infections like this.

I really hope all of that made sense. If not, lemme know!

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

I will go ahead and make another batch of separate. When you break it down like that it makes much more sense and a whole lot less to convince her to eat. I have a whole bottle of baytril and 40, 100 mg capsules of doxy so I have plenty. One dose won't kill me to waste.

LMAO, freaky math is sooo right. I barely passed Algebra my senior year of high school and that was only because I HAD to or I could not graduate. So I am awful with numbers and doses it is just confusing.

 

[user 78]

You can always ask on here. Lilspaz, Jorats, and myself are all pros at dosages by now. So long as you have a weight and concentration handy, we can give you an accurate dosage.

While the 10% Baytril does need to be diluted, the less Stuff you mix it with means the less you'll have to get into them. When you were mixing 1ml baytril/5mls baby food, Clover's high range dose would have been .22cc. With as lethargic as she was, trying to get that much into her would have been stressful for the both of you. The nastier something tastes, the less you want to try to get them to eat. The more concentrated the meds, the less they have to eat, so on and so forth. If there's ever a rat who outright refuses medication, it makes force medicating them much, much easier as well. Shoving .05cc total into a squirming rat beats trying to tempt them to eat .30cc mixed stuff any day.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

I will remember that for next time.

Poor Clover I feel so, so bad that I did not see the signs until she was really sick. I was chocking back tears as I held her. I kept telling myself she is not gone yet don't cry just hold on and have hope.

But I thought she was just getting old (like Lilspaz said) since she just turned 2 this month and when Lilly turned 2 in June she really slowed down, Lilly has her days were she will tear through the cage playing but after a few minutes she gets tired and takes a nap so I thought Clover was doing the same just slowing down.

When they get like that should I start them on a round of Baytril just in case, I don't want to over do it with the meds because the bacteria will become resistant and I don't want that.

Thank you, all of you for your help and words of encouragement. Besides my Mom you are really the only ones I can turn to. The BF will listen to me but he gets angry/upset and really doesn't want to hear it because he gets extremely emotional when things get sick and could die. He says once my girls are gone no more because he can't handle them dying so soon. But we will see it all depends on how much heartbreak I can really take and if there are some rescues who really need homes I really cannot turn them down.

 

[Godmother]

I'm so glad that Clover is recovering well!! And now we all finally know what all the high school math is for!

 

[user 78]

If they start acting like Clover did, then yes, I would start them on Baytril immediately. Lethargy is different from just tired. When Clover just huddled in the corner, no interest in anything, just sort of barely there - that's lethargic. When you can't entice a rat to eat their favorite thing, or to make them move around much at all, it's gone beyond just tired.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

Yeah, with Lilly she will be dead asleep not hearing a single commotion going on but the minute I wave food in her nose she will grab it with a vengence like she hasn't eaten in forever. It's funny at times but not when she accidentially grabs my finger it really hurts.

Clover still seems very weak, she eagerly ate two HT blocks last night and then took a two hour nap on my chest before it was time to eat her meds. I figure it will take her a few days for the meds to really kick in and for her to gain all her strength back. But if I do not see a real improvement by Friday I am taking her back to the vet to get something else maybe another combo of meds or give the steroids a try.

 

[user 78]

Did you pick up some Ensure for her? That will really help her keep her strength up and it's easy for her to eat. Being sick takes a whole lot out of them, and even eating their normal food can be a bit much for em. Plus, they feel like they're getting spoiled and it's some one on one time. My sickies always get a small bowl of baby cereal made with Ensure or Soy Milk, jsut make it more soupy than usual. When they're really sick, or having some serious resp issues, I'll just syringe feed it to them so they don't have to duck their heads down.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

Yes, but she didn't seem to really like it, she ate a little and just walked away. So I mixed the baby cereal with some carrot sauce and she chowed down. She is one of my really picky girls who would take veggies over fruit and sweets any day. I got some pedialite (sp?) and she drank some of it. I put two of the HT blocks in the ensure and will try that tonight when I get home see if that will be a little more appetizing to her. At this point I will do anything to get her to eat. Last night she shared a little of my refried beans, guacamole and had some lettuce and tomatoes from my tacos.

In the mornings I don't have a lot of time with getting ready for work, taking care of my 5 dogs and 10 rats but at night I have a lot more time so that's when I try to get her to eat as much as possible. Her sides were not sunk in last night her eyes were clear and she had obviously been grooming herself so she is slowly improving.

 

[user 78]

Oh, good! So long as she's still eating something, it's good. I thought she wasn't eating much at all. Some rats dig the Ensure, some don't. Mine tend to like the strawberry flavored the best, though.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

At first I could barely get her to eat anything. Now she is eating, I have not seen her drink from the water bottle yet but I assume she is since she is still hydrated. Last night she ate 2 HT blocks (she gladly grabbed them from my fingers) and I make sure to let her dig into their nightly dinner before the rest get to it so she has time to eat what she wants and is not rushed. Plus she gets to share what I have for dinner while the rest have playtime in their room. Part of me thinks she is milking being sick so she can get the extra love and yummies =) but that is fine with me I LOVE holding her.

 

[mamarat]

It's so fun to spoil them. Glad she is doing better. Each extra day is great. :happydance:

 

[user 78]

I'm so glad to hear she's doing so much better. Who cares if she's milking it a bit? We all enjoy it anyhow, hehehe.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

I am at this point terrified. Clover is lifeless, she just lays on my chest, no movement, she does not open her eyes and she does not even fight me if I roll her around she just allows it and she shows no interest what so ever in food.

I will be on the vets door step first thing tomorrow morning demanding a blood test to check her liver and kidney function and to get some kind of anti inflamatory and if neccesary an x-ray to check her heart. I don't care what it takes.

I was reading my Rat Health Care Book and it says one sign of PT is that a rat will become infant like, cuddly and have to be hand fed this expalains Clover she is very infant like and cuddly.

I just don't get why she was so well yesterday showing much improvement and tonight she is just lifeless.

While she si laying with me she on occassion makes some noises when she breaths like she is congested. I have been holding her for 2 hours now and she has not moved.

 

[jorats]

Oh dear, it could very well be a progressed pt then. This would be her time to go soon. :sad3:

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

do u think I should give meds a try or let her go peacefully?

 

[jorats]

My personal opinion... let her go.

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

that is what i am trying to prepare for. i am afraid it is just to late.