boo boo on toe : much worse : back from vet

[ChrisK]

PC is still on meds for a URI, he's taking doxy and baytril, for the third week now.. he will continue for one more week.
This evening I noticed his left rear paw, innermost little toe seems inflamed. I tried taking photos, but they all came out fuzzy. Here are the best two, which I hope are at least some help.






I'm wondering if I should give him metacam for a day or two? He doesn't seem to be bothered by it, but I thought this might get the swelling down. I'm assuming that the abs he's already taking should prevent any infection in the toe. But it's clearly red and swollen. Or is it best to just leave this alone for now, not medicate, and just keep an eye on it?

I'm a bit paranoid 'cause he's had a bout with arthritis with his feet in the past, and because this is the second round of abs for his URI. Poor guy seems to be prone to getting stuff... I just recently started him on a new vitamin supplement, to see if we can boost his immune system. fingers crossed!

 

[victoria]

If he doesn't seem bothered by it I would keep an eye on it but not give Metacam.

 

[jorats]

I agree with Victoria. These things are quite common.

 

[ChrisK]

sounds good. thanks!

 

[ChrisK]

Just checking in again on this. It's been one week, and I've seen no improvement in his little toe. Is this still okay? How long does it typically take for these things to disappear?

The meds he's on for URI include baytril, and he's finished with them tomorrow. I was hoping his toe would be back to normal before the meds are done... i.e. so that there are no worries about potential infection.

 

[jorats]

As long as it's not getting worse then it's ok. I've noticed that with toes it takes forever.

 

[ChrisK]

ahh crap! This morning while cleaning the cage, I saw a few drops of blood, and when I checked PC over, found his toe had gotten worse. It looks like a red cherry and I can't find the nail. Either the nail is engulfed in the swollen toe, or it has fallen out. He still does not seem bothered by it, shows no signs of pain, and is not picking at it nor is he bleeding. But oh it looks really swollen now. Much worse than before.... so... it's off the vet we go ... again...

I got an appointment for 6 tonight. Any ideas on what I can expect from the vet? What they might prescribe?

PC just finished 4 weeks of baytril and doxy (for a mild URI), and his toe has been swollen some since the past 2 weeks. In other words, he was already on abs when this first started. The abs finished one week ago. I don't know if abs will help him, and it's the only thing I can think the vet might prescribe. Any thoughts? I'd like to go with at least some ideas/questions tonight..

Thanks!
-ck

 

[Joanne]

Hmmm, I have no ideas. I'm sure you've already gone for your appt. What did the vet think?

 

[jorats]

What did the vet recommend? I would have soaked it in warm salt water.

 

[ChrisK]

The vet gave PC an injection containing an anti-inflammatory and a pain killer. He offered to do an x-ray to see if a bone was broken or missing, but after discussion, we realized that if there was a broken bone, PC would have showed signs of pain or at least be limping some, and he wasn't. In fact, thru it all, he's remained energetic, good appetite, still climbing everywhere, etc.

Vet also gave him baytril for 5 days, as a precaution because he said it's open and raw, and hence subject to infection. And I'm to give him metacam for a few days as well. The vet believes I should see a big improvement within 3 days or so.

I was okay with all that. But the vet continued talking after that and told me I should put PC in a smaller cage for 5 days, so that he doesn't climb, and give him paper bedding instead of the fleece I use because he should have something softer. And then he offered to put a bandage on it... all these last things left me feeling not so trustful of him.. that stuff sounded like the vet has no experience with rats... well, at least not living with them..

Anyway, as I took a look at his toe again now, it does look like the swelling is starting to subside some, and in comparing it to his other foot, it does look like he's lost part of his digit. I have no idea how that could have happened. It was just this morning that we saw the drops of blood and that his toe nail was gone. Until then it was just a swollen tip of his toe. I feel really lost and kinda scared about it, 'cause I don't really understand it, nor know if there's anything I can do to prevent this from happening again.

 

[jorats]

These things happen, honestly... nothing you did, just a fluke. I've had a couple of my rats lose the tip of their toes. They nick it or it gets caught, becomes necrotic and falls off. Pain management is the best and really only thing to do.
Your vet did give you good advice. My vet would have suggested cage moderation as well, not so much as separation, although, once upon a time my vet wasn't really aware of the need for buddies with rats. We pretty much taught her that. Maybe you could remove a ramp or something for the next few days or add extra padding and make sure it stays very clean.
In the end, the only thing that counts is that PC will be just fine.

 

[ChrisK]

Thanks, Jorats. I know you're right. I guess I'm just mystified because I saw no signs of pain. PC was active, playing, climbing, etc. eating and drinking normally, no puffyness. The only difference was that I'd noticed he was more aggressive during intros during the past week. However, during that time, there seemed to be no change in his toe, and his toe had been puffy for over a week already by then.

Well, regarless, as you said, the most important thing is that PC is alright (and getting the best care we can give him -- I added that part :giggle: )

 

[ChrisK]

forgot to mention... we did modify the cage some. We took out the wheel, and put in a big box which acts as a shelf in the same corner. He LOVES his new box. It's just the right height for him to look out and survey the world from! And I did add a ton more fleece to make the floor of the cage much softer for him to walk on. Here's hoping that will help! Lord knows, I can't stop him from climbing the side of the cage! He's a very active kinda guy.

 

[jorats]

You are a wonderful ratmom Chrisk. Don't ever think otherwise.

 

[temblabamomo]

Poor mate. Lots of healing toe vibes coming his way.

 

[ChrisK]

Poor mate. Lots of healing toe vibes coming his way.

Thank you!

I appreciate that! Poor guy can't catch a break! He's just finished meds for a URI and now his toe. I hope this will clear up for him quickly.

Just picked up and administered a huge dose of metacam (1ml once/day -- he's a big guy). He gets that for three days only, thankfully! And the baytril for 5 days, which is just a precaution.

But, the good news is that he's just living his life, apparently unhindered by the entire situation.

And I'll have to post more photos soon. He's quite the lady-killer kinda rattie guy. Just adorable really. :heart:

 

[victoria]

That's a massive dose of Metacam... it's the maximum dose for a 750g rat (I hope I'm doing the math right), and even that should be split up between two doses. If it were me I would start at something much lower (.2-.3, depending on his weight) and increase or decrease as necessary.

 

[ChrisK]

Yes, I thought that was too much too. But I found this thread with Debbie Ducommon's recommendations:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=19376

and that seemed to mean it was okay...


I'm just fine with giving less... it makes me nervous to give that large a dose frankly..

Can I have more feedback on this ? Thanks!

 

[mamarat]

With my big guys I start at .2 then increase the dosage as needed.

 

[Dazzle87]

I prefer to go with ratguide's dosages, since those are backed up by veterinary texts. Besides, I've never found the maximum dosage per ratguide to even be required.

I am wondering, however, with such a large dose, if your vet perhaps gave you the .5mg/ml metacam instead of the 1.5mg/ml metacam we are all used to receiving?