Bloody hard bites.

[Ame]

Oh my gosh! You've now shown me I was right, in suspecting I shouldn't let my housemate think our rat would have a better life elsewhere just because we don't have, like, four hours a day to play with her. Maybe his free-range time could just be where you aren't, like bathroom or playpen, and you wear gloves to handle him.

I'm glad you'll keep yours. Who has 4 hours a day to play with their rats anyway? Unless it's what they DO. I'm sure yours has a much better life with you.. at least you know he/she's being cared for.

 

[Ame]

Oh Ame, you're really going thru the wringer with these kids, it's just not fair, and I feel for you! Hugs!
As SQ says, let out a loud 'Eeep' when he even makes a move to bite. If he keeps it up you can try pinning him on his back til he quits fighting you.
Neutering usually helps - but not always - and it is expensive, especially after all Cashew has cost you, so it's understandable if you don't want to try that... I had a boy (Frodo) that was neutered when he came, he was great with my girl ratties but he'd bite me HARD & deep like your guy every chance he got, and he never quit all his life, yet he didn't bite in the rescue, he just hated Me for some reason (& I've had over 65 rats and never another that was like that with me)..

Did the girl say why they've been in 2 other shelters?
I know your reason for getting them is for Cashew, not for you. I wouldn't normally suggest someone consider returning a rat to the shelter, and I know it's the last thing you want to do, but in your position, considering all you're going thru with Cashew already I think it's fair for you to honestly consider if he will fit in your life or not. He will impact your ability to have Cashew & buddy/buddies out socializing with you. You're not in a position to have him neutered, and may never be if Cashew's issues are on-going or recurring and require further vet help. I know it would break your heart, but if you consider putting Cashew & your ability to interact with him first, (& even that boy if he's like my Frodo and hates you but may be happy with someone else), then maybe you can make a decision for you & Cashew that you can live comfortably with.
It's a horrible decision to have to make, but I think both you & Cashew have earned the right to have you, him, & his buddy all happily & comfortably interacting together...

Yeah.. should've listened to you. Even the vet thought getting him a mate would help his scratching. I think it has helped him a lot. He sleeps out of the pod, close to the newbies's cage. I'm really REALLY upset with myself now. I'm in tears. I didn't get my own prescription this month because of the vet costs. and now.. THIS? I'm going to see if there is a rat rescue around here.. I think.

 

[Fidget]

You have an extraordinarily good heart. Don't be upset with yourself for Anything! You're doing an amazing job of taking care of the unfair amount of difficulties you've had. You'll do the Right thing, it's just hard to know what that is sometimes, especially when it Needs to include what's best for You. This has all pretty much taken over your life, hasn't it? If you can find a good rescue to take them then you're still saving them! My heart SO goes out to you..
Maybe a rescue will trade you ratties? Explain that you're new to ratties and already dealing with so much emotionally & financially. and bitey-boy can go to an Experienced rat-parent where he Should be, and you can have a gentler kid so you & Cashew can both enjoy the happiness of rat-human relationships.

 

[Fidget]

I think if you add New-boy's teeth & the need to avoid them during outings to the existing heartache & expense of Cashew's issues, it could turn you off ever having rats again, and that would be such a horrible shame for both the pleasure you'd miss out on, and the luck of future ratties to find you!
I don't advocate re-homing, but in this instance I do for bitey-boy & his bro.

 

[RatsDrawBlood]

I am so beside myself with this problem. I hope you can figure yours out soon.. and then.. let me know how you did it.

By having the hobby of animal behavior for so long. I sound like a beginner because I'm bored when not learning through experimentation, so subconsciously make sure I'm always in new situations, perfecting it till it's no longer a challenge (not that I'd give away a kitten after curing it, but would let it just play with its siblings, as it's no longer where I'm needed).

My whole life it seemed like no rodent ever bites. Now I'm told rats are the least likely to, yet biter rat stories abound. Maybe something's been changing.

The only reason I talk like I have a biting dilema, is that thinking this way is why I don't have the problem now. If I go to her thinking she won't bite me, she will. The moment I saw an issue, I asked "How am I training her to do this?" & did the opposite. ... had I told my little letter "That feels nice, thanks for the lovely massage. You're the boss." .... I invented/designed/made equipment/procedures that would take a book to explain .... But that's just us. I think.

I PMed someone on Rattit, but her advice wasn't applicable, because it's never easy to describe & you're always going to picture someone's life as different than if you were them. What I love about this forum is that the experts here are brilliant and friends yet completely disagree, giving opposite advice than each other (sometimes), so that there's always something to help anyone or bits to take from each, one way or the other.

If (especially since neutering is never a sure thing) he could go to a new human and place (& maybe without the security of his bro would even be best) he starts over on a reset where (before his fear of newness wears off) someone who has my style (or better, SQ's) takes advantage of the initial politeness (as he investigates what customs he should establish), grabs and runs with it (this time in the direction of hey-if-I-die-of-gangrene-how-can-I-feed-you).

If he were female, I'd take him. I don't think he nor my rat would want to spend their lives alone in cages next to each other, but I only have room for two, not four.

You might place an ad for someone to give him to (assuming he'd like the rat at the new place), either if neutering him didn't work well enough &/or you too can only afford the care costs of two. I responded to CL ad but was an unfixed male. I hope you'll keep us updated.

What's needed in each major city, is a rescue that's never too full for more, in that each person who doesn't have time/space for it could still pay the rat's rent there. That would've worked when I was a child because care costs were insignificant. Nowadays, people don't even agree on diet or medicines.

What I wanted was to adopt a rat in need, but the only time I found females, the "Have you associated with someone who gave a dirty look to an animal?" & "Write your name in blood (if you've any left) that you'll use on yourself a (plastic) samurai sword upon allowing her to get a hangnail." violated my respect of privacy. Would you tell me, when you adopted from that place, what information did they ask you to give and what did they ask you to sign?

 

[Ame]

By having the hobby of animal behavior for 47 years. I sound like a beginner because I'm bored when not learning through experimentation, so subconsciously make sure I'm always in new situations, perfecting it till it's no longer a challenge (not that I'd give away a kitten after curing it, but would let it just play with its siblings, as it's no longer where I'm needed).

My whole life it seemed like no rodent ever bites. Now I'm told rats are the least likely to, yet biter rat stories abound. Maybe something's been changing.

The only reason I talk like I have a biting dilema, is that thinking this way is why I don't have the problem now. If I go to her thinking she won't bite me, she will. The moment I saw an issue, I asked "How am I training her to do this?" & did the opposite. ... had I told my little letter "That feels nice, thanks for the lovely massage. You're the boss." .... I invented/designed/made equipment/procedures that would take a book to explain .... But that's just us. I think.

I PMed someone on Rattit, but her advice wasn't applicable, because it's never easy to describe & you're always going to picture someone's life as different than if you were them. What I love about this forum is that the experts here are brilliant and friends yet completely disagree, giving opposite advice than each other (sometimes), so that there's always something to help anyone or bits to take from each, one way or the other.

If (especially since neutering is never a sure thing) he could go to a new human and place (& maybe without the security of his bro would even be best) he starts over on a reset where (before his fear of newness wears off) someone who has my style (or better, SQ's) takes advantage of the initial politeness (as he investigates what customs he should establish), grabs and runs with it (this time in the direction of hey-if-I-die-of-gangrene-how-can-I-feed-you).

If he were female, I'd take him. I don't think he nor my rat would want to spend their lives alone in cages next to each other, but I only have room for two, not four.

You might place an ad for someone to give him to (assuming he'd like the rat at the new place), either if neutering him didn't work well enough &/or you too can only afford the care costs of two. I responded to CL ad but was an unfixed male. I hope you'll keep us updated.

What's needed in each major city, is a rescue that's never too full for more, in that each person who doesn't have time/space for it could still pay the rat's rent there. That would've worked when I was a child because care costs were insignificant. Nowadays, people don't even agree on diet or medicines.

What I wanted was to adopt a rat in need, but the only time I found females, the "Have you associated with someone who gave a dirty look to an animal?" & "Write your name in blood (if you've any left) that you'll use on yourself a (plastic) samurai sword upon allowing her to get a hangnail." violated my respect of privacy. Would you tell me, when you adopted from that place, what information did they ask you to give and what did they ask you to sign?

Thanks for your reply. After hours of searching online for a rat rescue (all but ONE site worked!!), a person wrote back to me. They don't rescue anymore but they said they knew somebody who is good with bitey rats. He/she is contacting them for me. Been back n forth all day messaging. So, hopefully, I'll find a home for them. I'm not sure about separating them though. I got them from Bishop Animal Shelter, the only shelter that takes in small critters. They asked me NOTHING!!!!! They didn't even want to hear about the guy I have. They're feeding the rats... RABBIT FOOD!!!!!!!! I took them a bag of Oxbow. They still have one old guy there who probably won't last in this heat! The humidity is a killer.. for ME. I can't imagine a tiny body dealing with it. I only signed a paper that said if I didn't want them, I'd return them. NOT IN THIS LIFETIME! It's great that they take them but they need to learn how to care for them as well. I'm pretty disgusted by them right now. The only vet who neuters rats called back. $350. plus $59 initial visit plus medications. It's just out of the question. Why is it so expensive to do the right thing? It hurts me a lot. And since there is no guarantee it will fix the biting.. ??? He may be fine with somebody else. I just dunno and my heart is breaking.

 

[Ame]

I think if you add New-boy's teeth & the need to avoid them during outings to the existing heartache & expense of Cashew's issues, it could turn you off ever having rats again, and that would be such a horrible shame for both the pleasure you'd miss out on, and the luck of future ratties to find you!
I don't advocate re-homing, but in this instance I do for bitey-boy & his bro.

Thank you Fidget's mom. You're kind. You're right about not wanting any more rats. I'm scared to death of the new ones now. I replied to somebody else but I'll write it again. I contacted somebody who knows a person that can handle biters. It's a rat rescue no longer in business but the person knows other rattie parents. I might have to drive for a day but it's worth it if these guys can have a decent home. It's what I have to do. It's really stressing me now... I got a dang fever blister now. lol It kills me that they aren't like Cashew. I love that guy so darn much! He follows me when I let him roam.. and he comes when I call him. My cat isn't even as cool!!! Cashew loves to snuggle in the crook of my arm.. he naps after chewing hair off my arm! aww. I JUST LOVE that boy!!!!!!

 

[Ame]

I definitely upvote the neuter. I really think it would help him. Other things:

1) shrieking each time he bites, even if it isn’t hard
2) make darn good and sure you don’t smell like food
3) make darn good and sure you don’t smell like Cashew. I got a nasty bite requiring an ER visit from getting bitten because I smelled like another unfamiliar male
4) a lot of rats will bite from the cage and from free range, but if you just hold them they don’t. I think at that point you are dominant since you take their control away. Try it

Hope this helps

Thank you for the advice. He didn't bite when I held him at the shelter. I can't hold him at all now. He's just vicious. How did they treat your bite at the ER? Did they freak when you told them it was a rat bite? My neighbor thinks I'm dirty and disgusting because I saved the one I found outside. nice. I may have found a person who knows how to help biters. I'll keep posting when I find them.

 

[Ame]

Thank you for the advice. He didn't bite when I held him at the shelter. I can't hold him at all now. He's just vicious. How did they treat your bite at the ER? Did they freak when you told them it was a rat bite? My neighbor thinks I'm dirty and disgusting because I saved the one I found outside. nice. I may have found a person who knows how to help biters. I'll keep posting when I find them.

P.S. It's close to $500 for the neuter.. including initial and follow-ups, medication. Plus the traveling to another town. It's horrible of me to not find this out before adopting another one and I feel as bad as you all probably think I am. I assumed since they were "pets" that they'd be as nice as Cashew. That poor babe has been through so much. He has my heart and worth everything.

 

[RatsDrawBlood]

They still have one old guy there who probably won't last in this heat!

I'm assuming that one isn't neutered either ....

I feel as bad as you all probably think I am

Nope we don't think so. But we all think your neighbor is dirty and disgusting.

 

[Sheldon]

I would look into moving. I would go crazy with a neighbor like that!

And no, I don’t think you are horrible. I think people who intentionally neglect or abuse animals are horrible.

 

[SQ]

Now when I walk by the new guys' cage, that one guy actually lunges at me. Yep.. I think he just hates me. it's sad.

no, he doesn't hate you ...... it is hormones and also possibly being afraid

Please see https://www.ratshackforum.com/threads/things-to-discuss-before-surgery.7691/

 

[RatsDrawBlood]

"Ame said: ↑They still have one old guy there who probably won't last in this heat!" I'm assuming that one isn't neutered either ....

His listing on their site has - strangely - a field for everything about him *except* whether he's fixed, so I had to wait till they opened this morning to call them. She says he's not. Therefore I can't take him, but besides, he may be too old to play with mine to the extent she (for reasons I won't go into) needs.

Not sure if what's most important to you is doing the best for who you already adopted, but a thought is, if all you can reasonably do is trade the pair in for Pancake, you did give them a chance (and a vacation), the one who's out of the heat is the one too old to take it, and most importantly by far, no one is alone, because who's there is who has each other. (A pair of young might be more likely to get adopted, and maybe Carnivore will get then that being nice is how to not get sent back to the heat again. You might even keep bringing them cooling foods while they're there.) This works if, like lightning doesn't strike twice in one place, biting doesn't strike twice in the auditions for Cashew's future rat.

This time you'll be ready to nip any nipping in the bud, probably in the way that's works best, which is not giving him the opportunity in the first place (an ounce of prevention, since you discovered a pound of cure is hard to come by). But fattened up, and tired out by now, I've heard a male past his hormonal prime is commonly a nice n lazy mellowed out couch potato who just wants to chill and cuddle, much more so than a female.

If you feel your concern over bites will be sensed and cause biting, you could instead get a hand-raised or 4 or 6 week old rat with tiny teeth that bonds to its "parent" it would never think of attacking.

As always, I hope someone will correct me if this is off.

If you are about to get a new rat & you tell me first, I can figure out how to describe what worked for me. I actually think I've developed some uniquely useful tips already.

 

[SQ]

I hope you are able to find an experienced rat owner who can take the 2 boys, get him neutered and work with him. Please screen very carefully (some ideas here https://www.ratshackforum.com/threads/rehoming-a-rat-or-accidental-litter-things-to-consider.22990/)

Then maybe you can help the older rattie

wish I lived closer because i would take him

 

[Fidget]

It's horrible of me to not find this out before adopting another one and I feel as bad as you all probably think I am.

You are unfairly hard on yourself, please stop that, circumstances have already been unfairly hard on you. Nobody thinks bad of you in this situation, you didn't even set out to have rats, this stress & expense fell in your lap, you & your heart rose to the challenge, you've gone above & beyond for all 3 of them, and I think you're amazing!
And you're new to rats, nobody expects you to know everything right off the bat, Especially what a neuter would cost, no reason for you to even think of it when you adopted these 2.
What's best for bitey-boy is an Experienced home, just what you are trying to find him! What's best for Cashew is his mom feeling Good about him AND Herself, and getting the time & calm to just enjoy bonding with him.
I hope this person will take the boys. And no, you don't want to separate these boys if someone will take them both in.
Would the one remaining in the shelter be a good fit for you & Cashew? Perhaps they'd let you bring Cashew for a meet & greet to find out...
Please be as good to yourself as you are to these little ones, Ame. It breaks my heart to hear you expect more from yourself than you're already doing.

 

[RatsDrawBlood]

Would the one remaining in the shelter be a good fit for you & Cashew? Perhaps they'd let you bring Cashew for a meet & greet to find out...

You mean Pancake & Cashew might go together like bread & butter? Maybe it's a sign. (Though of course Pancake's new owner would probably not keep his shelter name.)

 

[RatsDrawBlood]

You're right about not wanting any more rats.

Reading and watching the below page (and the pages it links to) is what turned me from feeling like I didn't want to try to become friends with a rat I didn't already feel wouldn't hurt me, to knowing so much that I can make a fun adventure out of whatever comes my way:
https://www.joinrats.com/EarnTrust/RatsUsingTeeth/