Baxter/Quinn Intros: First night in the cage together

[Kimber]

Well Day 4 intros have come and gone and still no blood shed That's gotta count for something right?

I decided to follow Jo's advice for this intro and press down on Baxter whenever he got puffy and see if that made a difference. This meant I actually had to be in the area with them. At the beginning of the intro time, Baxter and Quinn were wandering around the area, but not really interacting. They crossed paths a few times and sort of just ignored each other until about 15 minutes in when Baxter started getting puffy and sidling into Quinn.

I pushed him down each time and talked to them which stopped an increase in tension with Baxter, but had two negative effects.
1: Quinn got upset each time I pushed Baxter down and would run off and chatter. Each time I would talk to Quinn and pat him to show him it was ok, but this was definitely Quinn's most stressful intro so far.
2: Because I was interacting with Baxter, he wanted to be up with me...since I wouldn't pick him up, he decided to sit on my foot so he didn't really go out of his way to interact with Quinn. I made sure to move around every so often so he would have to move as well.

They did seem to do well apart from that though. Sitting on my foot seemed to give Baxter more confidence and they had a lot of interaction around my ankles peeking out at each other and smelling the other when they weren't looking.

No squeaks, scuffles, etc. today. Pictures as always and please let me know if there is something else I should be doing...especially where Quinn is more stressed out with me in the situation.

 

[Kimber]

wow, looking at the pics in a row you can actually see that Baxter went from puffy to much calmer in the intro as it progressed

 

[hopefloats]

:laugh4: He did kinda get a little less puffy.... it is a process with boys.... I hate big boy intros But you are doing good with them so you will get there!

 

[Moon]

could you do a tabletop intro with them? So you can be with them but not standing in the area? Might help Baxter with the whole wanting to climb on you.

 

[Kimber]

Sounds good...I can definitely do that. Will it matter that it's in the same room as their cages are...and that the rabbit cage currently sits on the table normally (yes, we are that type of household, lol).

Also right now it's a small round table, but there are leafs that can go in it. Should I put one or two in to make it bigger for the intro so they aren't crammed together (well, not crammed, but you get the idea) or do you think not being able to sit in opposite corners for the first 10-15 minutes of an intro will be good for them?

 

[jorats]

The reason Quinn got upset when you pushed Baxter down is because Baxter was sending out distress signals. Don't do Baxter unless he really needs it.
Doing the intro in the same room as the cages could be tricky but I'll say give it a try.

 

[Kimber]

Define 'really needs it'...like only if they scuffle, or only if Quinn gets pushy back, or....

I don't remember intros being so hard with my last set of boys, lol....don't worry though guys I will continue to go through with it all, just need clarification on things....and with all you rat knowledgeable people I am making darn sure I take advantage lol

 

[jorats]

Do it if Baxter gets too pushy, especially if he starts to mount Quinn. If Quinn wants to be pushy back, I'd let him.

 

[hopefloats]

My dining room table is in the same room, my boys still see it as a scary place when they are on it.

 

[Kimber]

I could always drag the table into the livingroom, lol...rather the BF can drag it

 

[Kimber]

Tonight we moved intros to the kitchen table to give Quinn the feeling that I wasn't looming over him and to give me the opportunity to press Baxter if I needed to. Well, it seemed to have another added bonus for the intros: fear. lol.

Putting them in new surroundings seemed to help them bond. For the first 15 minutes the two of them were hopping around the table searching for some way to get off of it. Baxter wasn't puffy and Quinn was moving around and not dragging his tail. They would pass each other and give a little sniff and then move on. They even sat beside each other multiple times as if trying to work out a way to get off together.

About 25 minutes into the intros something weird happened. Baxter had been nosing Quinn to sniff under him and pushing him a little but more in a friendly way; then Baxter starts bruxxing and boggling. This weirded out Quinn a bit and he got a little puffy momentarily, but it went away. All of a sudden they started laying beside each other and really sniffing and interacting.

Quinn sidled up to Baxter and put his head under him and Baxter started grooming his head and neck in gentle little chews. Quinn closed his eyes and let him do it. Baxter would stop, they'd move around for a little bit and then meet up for another grooming

Intros were about 40 minutes tonight and ended on a great note with the standing beside each other waiting for me to pick them up and put them back in their cages....yay for a great day of intros.

I am thinking of another couple days on the table and then perhaps moving it to the couch which is non-neutral territory (the kitchen table sort of it too, but a little scarier). As always pictures, and please let me know if I should do anything different.

 

[hopefloats]

awwww :heart: :heart:

 

[MMak]

Wow! Looks like things are going really well!!!

 

[jorats]

So... Quinn is going to be the alpha. Baxter's fear (bruxing and boggling) told Quinn to take over as boss and he did it well. When a rat puts his head under another, he's demanding a grooming, he's demanding respect and Baxter gave it to him. Very nice!

Bonding between strangers usually occurs when they are put in a "scary" spot, which is why we recommend a place like the bathtub but anywhere works so long as the rats are scared or worried.

 

[Kimber]

Yeah, I figured that when Baxter started boggling/bruxxing and Quinn got puffy that there was a power shift. It seems to have worked out well though. Baxter was much happier once he didn't have to try and be all manly. It was cute heartwarming to see each of them being able to interact with another rat....long term manrat intros are so worth it.

 

[Moon]

Awesome, awesome, awesome!

 

[Exodog]

Yay! Looks like everything is going well!
This gives me a lot of hope for the NewGuy/Moog intros that will be starting in a few weeks once everyone's recovered from neuter/URI

 

[rhapsody]

So... Quinn is going to be the alpha. Baxter's fear (bruxing and boggling) told Quinn to take over as boss and he did it well. When a rat puts his head under another, he's demanding a grooming, he's demanding respect and Baxter gave it to him. Very nice!

Ooooh, that explains my Rufus' behaviour! Since he's the alpha, I've often wondered why he does that. Hehe, learned a new thing today.

Anyhoo, super glad that the intros are looking good! :thumbup:

 

[Kimber]

Didn't get a chance to post yesterday as I was feeling poorly, but better late than never right?

Put the boys out on the table again for intros and all was well. Baxter was a little pain in the butt pushing into Quinn, but Quinn was good and basically ignored him. They ate some seeds, plotted to get off the table together and wandered around. Baxter groomed Quinn on multiple occasions and Quinn groomed Baxter briefly once. It seems like they are getting along rather well....a true testament to what neutering rats can do.

Quinn seems to be getting better about being handled and pet too. On more than one occasion, Quinn came over to where I was sitting and got some head scritches. They were both interested in watching the new boy in the cage and seeing what he was up to. They even shared a couple seeds

I was wondering if tonight I could move them to out time upstairs in the spare bedroom. We have a large area blocked off with things to crawl over, but nothing to get cornered in. This way they could explore, have a longer time out and not want to be jumping off the table :roll:

If I can put them up there with me, should I do a short intro on the table first to make sure that they're still getting along and happy or just be up there? A thing to note is that Baxter has been up there once before (a few nights ago) so it's not completely neutral territory.

Pics as always.

I have a friend

 

[eagle]

Looks like it is going well. :wink2: