At my wits end, wish I knew what to do :(

[nightmarevamp]

So my rat Basil who is approx 1 year old is not doing well.

He's been seen by Amherst Veterninary Hospital and also Bridle Trail in Unionville (all because sadly Dr.Munn is sick)

The diagnosis is the same for both with the meds I have to give my guy. Batryl, Metrodze or however you spell it and Metcam for pain.

Sadly he gets stressed and frigtined really easy and after the vet visit he won't touch his food. So this means I have to force the drugs into his mouth with a plastic syringe. And he FREAKS each time, I can't find one good way to do it (bundled up, quick and sneaky doesn't matter it's a ordeal).

So his breahting is very wet and laboured , and his weight was down before now with the not eating I fear the stress and no food will win out over the meds.

What do you do for a rat that won't eat, freaks due to meds injections and generally can't breathe well???

I feel I'm asking for help even though I'm doing all I can. :'(

 

[jorats]

You are not alone, we've all had a rat at some point who wouldn't take their meds. You are going to have to get creative and find something very delicious to mask the meds. I'd do the metacam first and wait for it to take effect. Hopefully others will put in their 2 cents.

 

[nightmarevamp]

No no, he's taking the meds I'm able to get those into him.


He's just not eating, and is freaked and panicked after I give them to him. I dunno.

 

[lizmo1221]

My magic solution is to let the meds soak into some baby puff treats (like flavoured rice krispie type things, found in the baby food/cereal isle). If there is more than one med, or a lot of one med, I do more than one puff, but I try to stick to one. These are my girls' absolute favourite treat. They get at least one or two almost daily. So, they don't even blink if it's a little wet or tastes a bit different today, they just nom it right up! They don't seem to care if its unmixed meds or mixed with a flavouring, either.

I like it better than mixing it into baby food or something, because then you either have to separate the sick rat, which might stress them out, or risk the mixture being eaten up by the wrong rat. With the puffs, everyone is busy eating their own treat, one just happens to be eating one with meds soaked into it.

Edit: I also thought you meant how to get meds into him, which is why I suggested this. Though, if he is getting stressed out because of how you have to force meds into him, without that stress he might eat more...

Try making whatever food he is on into mush by soaking it in water. I find that helps.

 

[purinpurin]

:/ I have the exact same problem as you, nightmarevamp! One of my rats (Indy) just laps up the medicine without much fuss, but Loki, my PEW, spazzes out BIG TIME. Even when I manage to get the meds in his mouth, he spits it out, lets it dribble down his chin and rubs his chin all over my shirt and runs away. :/ I'd say not even 1/10th of the meds are actually ingested. Indy's breathing's gotten better, and he doesn't cough anymore, but it breaks my heart whenever Loki coughs (which is at least two or three times a day).

I've tried various suggestions (mixing baby food, even letting rice puffs soak up with the meds, as well as PB&olive oil mix), but Loki either smells the meds, or licks it once, spits it out and runs away. :S

If absolutely nothing works, like in my situation, would it be possible to get someone else to help you force-feed your rat the medicine? Someone else could wrap him up in a towel and hold him firmly (but not squish him XD), while you open his mouth and inject the meds in quickly. I find that instead of trying to get the syringe in through the front of Loki's tiny mouth, pulling back the side of his mouth and inserting the tip of the syringe there works best. At least then he's not able to push the syringe away easily.

GOOD LUCK! Let us know how it goes.

 

[Scythe]

To get him to eat, try mixing strawberry ensure with pablum(baby food). My boys really liked it, especially Roy before he went downhill and passed. But the other boys ate much quicker than Roy, so I had to separate Roy and let him eat what he wanted at his own pace before I let the others dig in. Let him eat as much as he wants. Or even syringe ensure to him; that'll also help with hydration and at least make the syringes a little more positive.

Roy was exactly like that, though. I could mix meds with anything... he figured out meds were in it, but if I tried to force it into him via syringe, it stressed him FAR too much than I was comfortable with. I had to keep constantly switching it up over and over... and I had to be very, very patient. It's really frustrating, but don't lose your patience over it. Even if you can only get some meds into him at once, its better than nothing, and you can always come back in an hour or so and try again.

 

[nightmarevamp]

The main problem is that he is scared straight , he won't eat anything and I tried everything. Yougurts of every kind, choclate, arrow cookies (which is how he took them before and since the vet he won't touch them now either)

He seriously won't go near any food. I even got the most irresistable thing to him, McDonalds french fries and still nothing.

I'd be happy to let a vet keep him and do all this for me because I'm getting NO where with this and I think he's just ending up scared, full of meds and is to freaked to eat, maybe even drink water I haven't seen him do that lately either. He just keeps going from parts of the cage to parts of the cage resting everywhere then getting up and moving again.

: (

 

[mamarat]

Can you try giving him Ensure in a syringe? Poor sweetie, poor you. Sometimes it's so hard, good luck!

 

[Joanne]

I'd be happy to let a vet keep him and do all this for me because I'm getting NO where with this and I think he's just ending up scared, full of meds and is to freaked to eat, maybe even drink water I haven't seen him do that lately either. He just keeps going from parts of the cage to parts of the cage resting everywhere then getting up and moving again.

: (

There may be more going on than you or the vets know. Maybe he can't get comfortable because he's in pain. That would certainly decrease his appetite. Maybe he is having problems with his digestive system, and it hurts or makes him feel sick to eat. Maybe his lungs are so bad that he can't breathe and he's panicking. You know how hard it is to eat with a really bad cold, and pneumonia is worse.
It's tough. I think the most important thing is to get the medications into him. Hopefully his body condition will hold him over until he's feeling better and wants to eat again. Just keep offering him nutritious food and fresh water and hopefully soon he'll feel like eating it.

 

[SQ]

Try to keep him comfortable, warm and well hydrated.
As previously said, he may be panicing because of trouble breathing.
Give him the meds and later pedilite and/or ensure by putting just a very tiny amount in the side of his mouth.
Then comfort him and do it again.
Very tiny bits may scare him less .... it may be impossible for him to breath and eat at the same time.
If his breathing gets too bad, it may be time to have him pts

 

[lilspaz68]

Dr. Munn will be coming back on May 24th on a part-time basis, but if you need to make an appointment, make it today, so you can "beat the rush". Tell them you have seen 2 other vets and the medications they gave you aren't working. The rat has stopped eating, is panicking, etc.

Are his toes and tail cooler than normal?

Keep softer foods in his cage like baby cereal and ensure and he'll eat when he feels up to it...

If it comes down to it, maybe I could see you both and help you figure something out.

 

[nightmarevamp]

Well the good news is the lump by his ear and neck is getting smaller.

The bad is that his breathing is so bad. I have him on something now to clear up the mucus and help with the wheezing. So add another list of meds to have him on.

Going to continue through the long weekend, hoping his body can last long enough and bounce back.

Thanks for all the advice.

It's funny though, my one rat Sneezers always seems to know where one of my guys is ill and cleans them there religiously. With thief it was his surgery scar, and basil it's his ear.

Dr. Sneezers.

 

[lilspaz68]

Jeff, can you take a pic of his face so we can see the lump on his cheek? You never mentioned a lump :undecided:

 

[nightmarevamp]

Oh sorry I didn't mention it because it was diagonsed and is actually getting better. They put him under and checked it all, he has a infection between his right ear and right jaw which is causing him some pain and hence making his teeth misaligned.

But really the no eating and lungs is where the worry is really at now. As the infection and lump is getting better.

 

[lilspaz68]

Oh sorry I didn't mention it because it was diagonsed and is actually getting better. They put him under and checked it all, he has a infection between his right ear and right jaw which is causing him some pain and hence making his teeth misaligned.

But really the no eating and lungs is where the worry is really at now. As the infection and lump is getting better.

He might not be eating due to pain, his teeth etc. Lumps on faces are scary deals... you said they put him under but what did they do exactly to check that lump? Did they x-ray his jaw to see if his teeth were okay, rotting molars can make the infection come through the skin.

 

[nightmarevamp]

Seriously after 2 vet visits and everything else I know, I can't think of other what if's? I've never been to school for this or got my degree or exposed myself to hundreds of rats patients.

I'm just trying to save my boy. If you know anyone who can I'm all ears.

Sorry I just don't need everyone second guessing the extensive length I've gone through so far.

 

[xxchelle]

I don't think everyone is second guessing you. They're simply trying to find out more information so they can help you and your boy. For example, as Shelagh asked, it would be helpful to know if there's infection issues in his jaw, etc. So knowing what was done while he was under anesthetic would be useful. If they did an x-ray and found rotting molars, they should be looking at getting them removed ASAP as that can kill very quickly (I've been through it with my poor girl Maya). That would also be causing him to panic, and not eat, etc. See how it's helpful to know what the vets have done?

If his teeth are misaligned, that's malocclusion and you'll have to see about maybe getting his teeth trimmed, maybe that's why he's not eating properly.

You mentioned that you have him on something to clear up the mucous, but you didn't mention what. Again, this would be helpful to know.

 

[lilspaz68]

We help lots of people, and this is how we do it.,...we ask the panicking rat parent questions, trying to figure out answers or a direction to go in...I was confused at the use of the metro and metacam for pain originally, as metro is used for infections, and metacam can be used as an anti-inflammatory as well as pain relief.

We're not vets here, we just have been through so much, and we learn...the hard way sometimes. :undecided: No one is judging you, we are just trying to get a full picture so we can help you figure this out.

With the lump did they aspirate it or lance it to drain the pus? Lumps on the face can sometimes turn out to be a fatal cancer that fools people into thinking they are abscesses. Its called Zymbal's Gland and lumps directly under the ear are viewed with suspicion. I am praying your rat doesn't have it. A pic will help us rule it out from its location, etc. I didn't want to mention it until you posted a picture so you werent' alarmed unnecessarily.

 

[nightmarevamp]

I know everyone is trying to help I'm sorry it was just the frustration and despair talking.

They did put a needle in to find out if it was puss and none came out, but when he checked inside his ear puss was very present, so while he was under they checked his teeth and figured it was a bad infection between his ear and jaw bone.

I have him on something now that is making his breathing better and today I saw him drink from the water bottle.

I also have a appt with Dr.Munn on Tues when he gets back, so here's hoping to get him through the weekend.

 

[lilspaz68]

I know everyone is trying to help I'm sorry it was just the frustration and despair talking.

They did put a needle in to find out if it was puss and none came out, but when he checked inside his ear puss was very present, so while he was under they checked his teeth and figured it was a bad infection between his ear and jaw bone.

I have him on something now that is making his breathing better and today I saw him drink from the water bottle.

I also have a appt with Dr.Munn on Tues when he gets back, so here's hoping to get him through the weekend.

I am actually going through something similar right now...Oliver has a lump under his cheek/jaw, pus/blood in his ear, and a porphy squinty eye. He's taking his meds well...you might want to try strawberry Quik syrup to disguise the taste of the meds...a lot of rats go nuts for it.

If he's not eating, can you try to syringe Ensure into him at least? It also teaches him that syringes don't always mean nasty ucky meds.