Agouti trio - in need of some socialization ideas!!

[Jennalyn]

I have been through 5 groups of half-wilds, and no matter what colour mama is, babies are ALL agouti. if they have been handled, they will be a lot like domestics but with a much stronger startle response.

Wow. That's... a good way to put it, actually. My girls do have a "much stronger startle response" than the boys, one of them in particular. We jokingly call her the "little hermit" because her sister's super food-motivated and always at the front of the cage to see if you have any treats. And all of your pictures look pretty much exactly like all of the babies did. Especially crowded together... it was utterly pitiful to see them all huddling in anything they could the day they first came into the shelter, which consisted of their water-dispenser and an igloo. There was no way to tell them apart besides the amount of white at the tips of their tails.

My girls have never bitten me, but Julie nailed Mom once in December for no reason besides mild "cube aggression" (she was petting one of the boys, who was sharing the cube with Julie). Julie also nailed my brother's ex-girlfriend a few times about a month or two ago, but that was because the twit kept sticking her fingers through the bars smelling like a cheeseburger and then jerking back like a ninny.

Lemme see if I can dig up some baby pictures.

Here's the second day they were home. So freaked out but I knew they were going to need a lot of work and I didn't have the patience for anything but forced socialization. It's still taken seven months for the one girl to allow me to stroke her on the head while she's in a hammock.

With the fur still growing back from her spay...

 

[Jennalyn]

Not to hijack the thread, by any means - I'm just trying to provide as much info as I can to help you help Jen. :heart: Honestly, if you do think they're half-wild then that might explain a lot...

 

[mamarat2]

I just got chills reading that post Shelagh. Two babies on the wall is the exact response I get from all three given the option of where to go if they are cornered and I don't have something above too. In fact when they were at the former owners' house in the single CN they were all over the walls trying to get away from hands. Those pictures could be them of Teya at adult size.

The other thing I noticed which also is leading me to begin to believe you is that Blue who is the neutered brother is about the same size as his sisters. She kept telling me he is bigger, he is only slightly bigger - I have to really look hard to see the neutered kid when he is sitting with his sisters. So unlike domestics they are closer in size between the sexes it seems?

 

[mamarat2]

Not to hijack the thread, by any means - I'm just trying to provide as much info as I can to help you help Jen. :heart: Honestly, if you do think they're half-wild then that might explain a lot...

Oh you're not hijacking beleive me....this thread is turning out to be quite interesting.

 

[Jennalyn]

It really is interesting. I had never seriously thought that they could be half-wild. More of a frustrated consideration when they were being particularly difficult. But now I'm wondering pretty hard.

Julie still dislikes being picked up and if I hadn't learned how when she was tiny and freaked out then I dunno if I could. She's a champion wiggler with anybody else. I'm still the only one who can confidently get her out of the cage. Nobody else will try because they're worried about those teeth, though it's really more the fear of a bite than the likelihood of one at this point. My brother jokingly called the girls the "demon rats". Then we got the boys and the name stuck even harder because of the temperament difference. It's really in the last month that they've mellowed as much as they have. Also within the last month that my bro's been willing to pet them.

 

[victoria]

I'm glad Shelagh saw this thread because when I saw the pics the first thing I thought was halfies. I only have experience with some very poorly socialized domestic rats and I remember how hard it was to get them back in the cage after playtime and how I always felt that "chasing" them around was setting back their socialization. Eventually, they learned to time their playtime and would go back to the cage on their own, and if they didn't they learned to come back at feeding time. The food trick worked especially well Amelia, who was like Tippy, the protector of the group.

I think introducing them to other rats will help as with interacting with them as often as possible, even if it's hand feeding them peas whenever you have a chance. (Once you're reasonable sure it won't land you in the ER of course!) The only thing I would keep in mind is to only have playtime with them somewhere where there aren't to many hiding spots, otherwise it's going to be a pain to get them back in the cage each day and they will get stressed.

 

[Joanne]

Interesting thread. I have no helpful info, but I'm curious to see how things go. Good luck, much patience to you!

 

[jorats]

I was just talking to my mom tonight about her half wilds. I told her that these three reminded me of them.
What saved her halfies was having "good" rats in the same colony as them. Her halfies were not handleable but they did enjoy climbing on her and giving kisses too. You've got a ton of socializing to do.

 

[sarunia]

This might be a stupid suggestion, but if you're wanting them to get used to your smell, could you pop a dirty, old t-shirt of yours into the cage? That way then can get used to your smell on their terms? I'm not sure what this would do regarding dominance, but ... just a thought. Good luck!

 

[eagle]

This might be a stupid suggestion, but if you're wanting them to get used to your smell, could you pop a dirty, old t-shirt of yours into the cage? That way then can get used to your smell on their terms? I'm not sure what this would do regarding dominance, but ... just a thought. Good luck!

Actually I think that might be a good idea. :thumbup:

 

[mamarat2]

Yup I have to dig through my tshirts and find one to sacrifice, already on the list for the week!

 

[mamarat2]

Is barbering a commonplace thing with the wild kids too as a nervous issue? When they arrived I noticed Violet had some barbering spots, particularly in spots she isn't able to reach. Then last night when I was feeding everyone Violet and Tippy were in the hammock and I saw Tippy barbering her in a new spot, so its not my imagination. Thought maybe Violet was doing it to herself as she is visibly the most shy and seemingly nervous of the three, though she doesn't bite.

 

[lilspaz68]

My oldest wildies have barbered cheeks. Yoshi is the culprit. Probably a stress thing.

 

[jorats]

It would make sense that they barber since barbering can be a sign of anxiety.

 

[mamarat2]

Had another playtime tonight. Same routine, got them all up top then blocked the ramp with a tile and they all moved into the box. In went some of their rat rags from in cage and we went to the bathroom. Amazingly enough Blue and Tippy were the first ones to come up and climb on me. I was amazed that Tippy was anywhere near me as being the ringleader she always seems to be the most aloof when its about me unless I am involved with touching one of her siblings. Violet was even more shy than last night though for safety she actually ran into a corner closest to me then behind my back as her hiding place. Towards the end of the playtime I wrapped Violet up in a towel and held her for a few minutes in my lap, at which point Blue and Tippy came up to investigate and I had all three sitting in my lap together. Amazed.

I did notice that Tippy seemed to have barbered Violet a little too hard near her ear last night and there was some crusty blood, very small amount, nothing major and obscene.

My resident 10 are not currently helping with the calming factor, it seems the new group of rats in the house has stirred some excitement next door, next door being a few good feet away to cut down on issues. Hopefully that will calm down over the next few days.

 

[jorats]

It could take a month or so before your guys settle down. New rats always stir things up.
But sounds like things are looking up with the newbies.

 

[Jennalyn]

That's so cool to hear!

My guys always use the spot behind me in my robe as their hiding spot, too. The girls and the boys. Hehe.

 

[mamarat]

Seems like a very good beginning. If she gets groomed in the same spot all the time I had used that stuff they put on baby's thumb to stop sucking (can't remember what it's called) Thumbz? It worked for my pews. And yes my boys are still having an issue with the new girls. And they're all neutered. lol

 

[mamarat2]

A short update :dance:

Last night was cage cleaning night so my resident herd had a quick playtime and then I worked on the agouti kids cage to get it cleaned. They didn't want to come out so that of course made it interesting. I got them all upstairs and put the tile across the down ramp so I could at least have somewhere "safe" to put my fingers thru the cage to lift it out of pan and have them not be running every which way. Went well, they seemed calmer overall.

Tonight they had a playtime I found its easier to get them all upstairs and they literally all run to the highest level, then I offer them their box and in they all hopped, LOVE IT! Into the bathroom for playtime. I don't attempt to get them out of the box I just set it on the floor and let them do what they want. About 5 min in Blue & Tippy started coming out of the box for mini laps around the room, them Blue jumped in my lap and seemed content to let me pet him. Tippy eventually checked out the lap and although she was not up for as much petting as Blue she did at least let me touch her tonight.

Before I got them out of the cage tonight I also was petting them all a little bit and talking to them, Tippy responded well (really they all did) but Tippy is usually first to not think and just react....react being come at the hand and bite. So it appears we are ever so slowly making progress. Tiny baby steps, but progress. I can deal with that!!

 

[jorats]

Excellent!