URI, shivers, sneezes...Updated

[myac]

One of my girlies, Lily, has been diagnosed with a URI. However, she seems to be doing only a little better since then.
I thought in the beginning she had an eye infection. So she was put on BNP for two weeks. A little after a week, I forgot to give her the meds one day and she went right back to looking the same as before! Also, she had started sneezing a lot, so I took her back to the vet.
The Thursday before last week the vet started her on Enrofloxacin liquid (banana flavour, so it's not too bad getting her to take her meds ) and it has cut back on the sneezing by about 50%.
BUT, her eye isn't getting any better, in fact, it was worse for a while, and I noticed three things:
1)Lily is scratching herself a lot more than usual, but she got a shot for mites when she first went to the vet for her eye, so I don't think that's what it is
2)Lily squeeks sometimes just randomly (mostly noticed when I'm holding her and she's all comfy) and her bruxxing sounds more like she's in pain or anxious than happy; and
3)Now when I hold her (if she's not being squirmy :giggle: ) I can feel her body shiver. It's not her whole self, just her torso and hind end that seems to shiver. I read somewhere (can't remember where :wallbang: ) that that wasn't a good sign and I'm getting a little worried.
Poor Lily isn't very old (8-9 months, I think) and already she's not doing so well.
Lily's two sisters seem to be ok. I did notice that they also seem to be sneezing a bit and scratching more than usual (so I'm giving them some of Lily's meds too... less than half the dosage for Lily, but some just to be safe).

Having said all this, Lily's behaviour (eating habits, sleeping habits, playfulness, etc) have not changed. If anything, since I first noticed the issues with her eye, she's gotten better.

Does anyone have any ideas?
Lily's such a sweetpea, and the reason I got rats in the first place! :heart: Any help is greatly appreciated.
I'm thinking maybe we got it wrong and she has something other than a URI, or maybe she's on the wrong meds?

 

[jorats]

From the description, I would have thought you were talking about an older rat. When a rat of mine has body spasms near the spine, it's usually associated to pituitary tumors and/or hind end degeneration.
If she's an itchy girl, I'd get her and her buddies on a mite/lice treatment. If you can, get Revolution, it's great stuff.
If she got a shot, then my guess it was Ivermectin which needs a follow up dose to be effective.
The eye... can mean so many things... URI, blocked tear duct, eye infection... I've had rats live with one leaky eye most of their lives and never got worse and never acted like something was off.
Once, I had a girl's eye clear up when I changed her food to a high quality block.
I wonder if your girls are on a strong enough dose of Baytril to be completely effective. The dosing with Baytril/Enrofloxacin has a large margin before it becomes an overdose.

 

[myac]

Hmmm..
The dose I was told to give Lily is .07 ml every 12 hours. For 3 weeks.

The spasms/shivers are the oddest thing because you can't really see them happening. It's like it's her insides that are shivering and you can feel it through her skin...and it doesn't seem to bother her. Also, it isn't a constant "shiver". It happens for a few seconds probably 3 times a minute. As far as I can tell, she has no more problems getting around than she used to. She still climbs the cage, runs around and wrestles with her sisters, etc. She never was the most agile (she's fallen a couple times - trying to get into the wheel from the second level, which was funny) but she has never hurt herself falling and she's always been able to get where she wants to go without much issue. Actually, she even taught the other two how to climb down carefully so they know where they're going and don't have to back down the side of the cage blindly.

It's good to know that she needs a second needle for the Ivermectin to be effective. I'll make another vet appointment and make sure I talk to him about that.
I can get Revolution, but I'll have to ask for it, I think. My mom gets it for our cat from the same vet.

I wish I could say I thought her eye was just a normal occurence for her, but I don't think it is. She usually acts as if it's a bit painful and she keeps it away from her sisters as much as she can.

As far as food goes, we make our own mix instead of buying from the pet food stores. I'll be honest, I don't actually know what a "block" is, or where to get them.
Their food mix contains (all uncooked):
Puffed kamut
Large flake oats
brown rice
whole wheat pasta
various seeds (ie: hemp, flax)
Pearled barley (depending on the kind of seeds in the mix, there may not be any)
Textured Vegetable protein (depending on the kind of seeds in the mix, there may not be any)
Dried cranberries
Banana chips

and, of course, treats like frozen peas, whatever veggies I'm eating, yogurt drops, the occasional peanut/hazelnut/sunflower seed, sometimes a brazil nut (in the shell for chewing) and special small animal pretzels.
The food mix (as above) is not just dumped into their bowls like that and each thing is measured out according to a recipe.
Do you think they should be getting something else or not eating something I'm giving them? I got the food recipe from a family member with rats and their rats are doing wonderfully! :scratch:

 

[ryelle]

.07 or 0.7??

.07 seems a bit low for the symptoms your listing and 0.7 is just too high
My Patrick has a mild URI (vet couldnt hear that well) and he has been put on a higher dosage of 0.2mls every 12hours for 7 days - with a follow up check-up and continuation of meds if needed

Edit: do you know the concentration of the medication?

 

[ryelle]

and a lab block is a type of food made specifically for rats. they come as little biscuits / blocks... some i've tried look like little dried cat food. they contain everything your rats need though which is a bonus (ofc u still add fruit and veggies)
people from your area can tell you where to find it and more info

 

[jorats]

Your rat staple food is lacking, Iwould add a rat block or a dog food low in protein and low fat... one with lots of carbs and grains for rats.
Like Ryelle mentioned, the rat block contains the exact nutrient a rat needs, no guessing game. You might be able to find Hagan Extrusion in some of your pet stores, add it to your mix.

 

[jorats]

Edit: do you know the concentration of the medication?

This would be good to know. If it's a high concentration, then .07 would be a good dose.

 

[theratlady]

your rat is in heat when it does the "shivering"

 

[jorats]

Ugh, that's right... girls do the "shiver" when they go into heat. :lol:

 

[myac]

Your rat staple food is lacking, Iwould add a rat block or a dog food low in protein and low fat... one with lots of carbs and grains for rats.
Like Ryelle mentioned, the rat block contains the exact nutrient a rat needs, no guessing game. You might be able to find Hagan Extrusion in some of your pet stores, add it to your mix.

:doh: I forgot the dog food! I use Authority Less Active dog food for older dogs in their food mix too.

 

[myac]

Edit: do you know the concentration of the medication?

This would be good to know. If it's a high concentration, then .07 would be a good dose.

The meds say 4 Enrofloxacin liquid per ml 50mg/ml

As for going into heat, none of my girls have been spayed, but I was told that their ears should shiver and shake too when that happens. Lily's ears don't and the shivers happen all the time... I'm pretty sure she's not in heat all the time! (I hope!! :shock: )

Oh, and Lily weighs about 353g, I think. I'm not sure exactly how accurate that is, but it's close.

If anyone could tell me where to find the blocks, that would be great. It would sure take the guess work out of making rattie breakfast! :giggle:

Thanks!

 

[jorats]

That dose is good!
You can find Hagan Extrusion at Walmart or Zellers.

 

[theratlady]

do you notice this shivering/shaking everyday? or is it like every 3 days or so. they dont always vibrate their ears.

who is your vet? that is a lower end dose for baytril and may not be enough to knock down the myco. she could easily get twice that amount.
shes geting 3.5 mg which is 10mg/kg. i believe this is the top end range in the vet cps.

the rat and mouse drug chart says 5mg/lb or 11mg/kg and under says to increase that 4x http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

 

[myac]

@ jorats: Thanks! I will look for Hagan Extrusion there.

@ theratlady: I noticed the shivering 2 days in a row and one of those days (the second one) I held her in the morning and evening and it happened both times.
I see Dr. Slaunwhite at Companion Animal Hospital in the Colby Village plaza. Last time I went, though, he wasn't available. I saw someone different, but she consulted with him before prescribing the meds as she has limited experience with rats.


Lily seems to be getting a little better since I started this thread. Her eye looks better, although nothing else has changed. I haven't noticed the shivers recently, but she won't be still when I hold her, either. She squirms and wants to go back in the cage. :roll:
I still think she might be in a little bit of pain since she is even more careful around her sisters and squeaks sometimes when nothing should be hurting her. Also, her bruxxing is still different from the happy I'm-almost-boggling bruxxing.

Do you think I should give her a bit higher dose? Maybe 0.1? I don't want to give her too much, but if a bit more would speed up her recovery time, everybody would be happier!

Thanks again, all!

 

[theratlady]

i sent you a pm
yes don is wonderful and lindsay used him for years. she would consult with me or others and get feed back and usually listened to the advice. if she doesnt improve 100% say at a weeks end(should be steadily improving before then) then the baytril should be upped and possibly doxycycline added. and treated for a good 2-3 wks.
tell him theratlady was giving you this advice(also a vet tech)
i still say she was in heat they usually go into heat at night and still in heat sometimes in the morning. they also can go into heat every 3-6 days. she may have a overactive or cystic ovary causing more constant heats.

the hagen can be bought at walmart, petsunlimited, petcetera and i think ive seen it at walmart

if you want to treat the sisters they should get the proper dosage or you are setting them up for antibiotic insensitivity later on.

i find change in season can bring on the sneezes and wheezes too.

 

[myac]

I will be keeping a close eye on all 3 for the next few weeks and if Lily's condition doesn't substantially improve by the end of this week, I will definitely be making another visit to the vet.

I suppose you're right about change of season affecting my other girls and making them sneeze. I'll stop giving them any meds and see how they do. If they really do need some abs, you're right, they should get the proper dose and it should be prescribed by a vet.
(if nothing else, I now know that they like the banana flavouring :giggle: )

I was holding Lily not too long ago (an hour or so) and she wasn't doing any "shivering", so unless it happens again, we shall assume she was just going into heat. I mostly thought her ears should vibrate too because I've seen her sisters' do that.

My bf is out looking for Hagen now. There must be one specifically for rats, right? He called me to say that he could only find stuff formulated for guinea pigs and rabbits. :? He's looking at Walmart now.. hopefully with better results.

 

[jorats]

The hagan is not specific to rats, it' the Extrusion for Hamsters. Their blocks used to be advertised as Nutriblocks for rodents which has great ingredients and perfect protein and fat levels.
Another reason why some rats shiver internally is great excitement or fear. But that shivers is not only in the spine but more all over.

 

[Catibrie]

Ok first off MYA!!!!!!!! ((<-- my niece)) Hey hunny! WELCOME (I totally missed that intro thread)
I am sorry to heal Lilly is not doing well. I hope she improves quickly, If not and you need a vet ride lemmie know.

 

[myac]

Ok first off MYA!!!!!!!! ((<-- my niece)) Hey hunny! WELCOME (I totally missed that intro thread)
I am sorry to heal Lilly is not doing well. I hope she improves quickly, If not and you need a vet ride lemmie know.

:laugh4:
oh wow! I looked for you on here, but I had no idea what your username would be!!!

I think Lily will be ok. Today I can see that her eye isn't producing a ton of porphyrin and I found the thread about masking meds so she takes them easier now.
(I have been doing a LOT of research :coffee: :thud: :sleepy: )
If things do go downhill, tho, I will absolutely call and bug you! :nod: :giggle:

 

[myac]

So, Lily has been off her meds for 3 days now and she's looking good!! :joy:

Her eye has been producing just the tiniest bit of porphyrin since, but not anywhere near what it used to be.

AND......... The last day on her meds, Lily boggled!! :happydance:
She has never done that before!
And the next day both of her sisters were boggling at the same time! I've never seen them do it either and they were pretty much doing it in sync. It was sooo cute and it made me feel so good!

So I think it's safe to say she's better.

Thank you to everyone who helped me through my paranoia. :giggle: