update on new rats and the residents last post

[Petunia]

not that that is all that unusual

anyway! I've got three new fosters all around a year and a half old.
They are all scared and shy and not used to be handled much. They've spent way too much time without much human interaction, and the two girls spent the first year of their lives in a hamster cage!!! grrrr!

OK, I can handle the boy pretty easily, he wants to be held and loved on, he's just nervous about it.

But the two girls, oy!

they both have different degrees of cage aggression. One wants to come out and play, her name is Rita Ratina.
But she will try to bite anything that gets near the bars of the cage and bit me once when I put my hand in the cage to move something. I may have startled her, even though I had "announced" my presence as I always do before opening the cage door.

I can get her out of the cage fairly easily because she wants to come out.
But after being bitten by her, I am afraid to pick her up.

The other girl, Lady, is very very wary of people. She goes to the back of the cage when the door is open and stays there.
When she has the opportunity to come out without having to interact with me at all (I put up a ramp to a card table so she can come out all on her own) you can see that she's thinking about it, but so far, hasn't ventured out.

I will continue to give her the opportunity of course but what I am wondering is,
should I be trying to pick up Rita as often as possible, for a few seconds at a time to get her used to being held?

or wait for her to come to me (if she ever does- and she has come over and nibbled on me- she's pretty mouthy, likes to taste things and explore them with her teeth first, it seems)


and what should I do with Lady?

I am concerned about not handling them, I mean, I feel like I should be able to at least pick them up from time to time if only to check their physical condition, I do that with my own girls at least once a day.

how do I get the terrified Lady to trust me?
and should I try to pick up Rita (when I'm feeling brave enough, so she doesn't pick up on my fear) and try to get her to tolerate being held for longer and longer periods?

when she's out to play, I kind of don't want to interrupt her at all because she's had so few opportunities before to run around and explore. But if not holding her now will make it harder to hold her "eventually" I'll start working on it now.


thanks in advance for any tips or advice.

 

[jorats]

It sounds like you already know what you should do.
More picking up, more cuddles, more interactions should help your girls understand that humans re not evil. Humans can be good and loving. If you need to, keep a towel with you and use it when you aren't feeling too brave.

 

[Petunia]

It sounds like you already know what you should do.
More picking up, more cuddles, more interactions should help your girls understand that humans re not evil. Humans can be good and loving. If you need to, keep a towel with you and use it when you aren't feeling too brave.

thanks Joanne

I guess I've just lost my confidence. I realized too late that I was rushing trying to introduce the new kiddos to my girls, and now I feel a bit unsure of myself. OK a lot unsure of myself LOL

The fosters were in much worse shape than I'd expected them to be. So that really threw me.
Then I made things worse by trying to rush the intros, I'm afraid.


I spend as much time as I can just hanging out in the same room with them, talking and singing, which they seem to tolerate ok LOL

I keep hoping if Lady sees that Puff isn't afraid of me she'll venture out.
I don't think Rita is really afraid of me, it's more the other way around right now.

I had a rat who was a totally unpredictable biter, she'd be fine, even bruxing away and then suddenly and with no signs of aggression, take a chunk outta my finger or hand.

Unfortunately Rita is the same color as she was, both black with white bellies (black berkshire?)

I KNOW Rita is a different rat altogether, but that stupid irrational fear pops up from time to time.

I hope I get over it soon. Her tumor is about double the size it was when she got here.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

If i read it correctly and that you are trying to intro these fosters to your current rats (who know and trust you) I would continue with that. In the past I have found that previously scared and skittish rats warm up to humans alot faster if they have buddies to show them that humans aren't evil. But just be sure not to rush then intro process :thumbup:

 

[Petunia]

If i read it correctly and that you are trying to intro these fosters to your current rats (who know and trust you) I would continue with that. In the past I have found that previously scared and skittish rats warm up to humans alot faster if they have buddies to show them that humans aren't evil. But just be sure not to rush then intro process :thumbup:

well I wanted them introduced because they really need to be all in the same room for the summer, I've only got one A/C and live on the 3rd floor, it gets very hot in here in the summer.

But my girls do not like the new kiddos at all!! I let my girls out when the fosters were in their cage and my girls climbed up to it and tried to get at and attack the fosters in the cage!

they've all mingled scents, there really isn't any neutral territory that is safe to bring the rats into except for my kitchen table, BUT the kitchen can't be shut off from the rest of the apt and one of the fosters jumps off of things and runs off!!

for now, things are really messed up: I had to put the fosters in the CN cage (it's a single) But that was my 5 girls' cage

My girls are now in a Martins playpen for part of the day, out to free range for at least an hour usually two each day and sometimes I will split them up and put two in the fosters' cage (which is really only big enough for two rats, well the rats I've got anyway, they are all BIG)
and leave 3 in the playpen

I'm trying to sell the playpen and another smaller one and get another CN cage, that would be ideal

Between the cage aggression and my bad back/shoulders/knees, I need a cage that is easy to get the rats into and out of (and I find the CN cage a LOT easier to clean than the Martins. Love the Martins cages and I think the rats even prefer them but for me personally the CN saves me from a lot of pain.

anyway, so they are all in the same room for most of the day. One playpen is in the living room and I can bring my girls in there when its cool enough so that the fosters have the whole rat room to themselves.

I do this so that they won't all end up at the sides of the playpen trying to attach each other.
Puff, the boy and two of my girls, seem to just hate each other!

I've got two girls who don't seem to care one way or the other about the new rats, so they'll be the ones that I try to introduce at some future time.

but they are also the rats that spend the least amount of time with or climbing on, me LOL

my first three girls, Mumma, Phae and Clair are very fond of me, and climb all over me, but when they see the fosters they get all puffed up and get so upset, it's just awful to see.


sorry if this is a bit rambling.
I do hope that the fosters will see that my girls like me ok and that that will help them fear me less, but right now, they are afraid of, and/or strongly dislike my girls, so I don't know if that affects their opinion of me in any way.

could they see me as a mutual enemy?? because I am consorting with the "enemy" rats?? I know that sounds funny,
but really, are they capable of even thinking like that?

I have seen that a bolder rat can help bring a shy one out of their shell but I also had one rat teach another some bad habits, too LOL (can't for the life of me remember what it was)

 

[jorats]

When it's between bars, rats, in fact any animal seem to "lose it". But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be friends if the bars weren't there.
If your gut is telling you to hold off though, go with that. Does Rita bite outside the cage or just inside the cage?

 

[Petunia]

When it's between bars, rats, in fact any animal seem to "lose it". But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be friends if the bars weren't there.
If your gut is telling you to hold off though, go with that. Does Rita bite outside the cage or just inside the cage?

oh! I didn't know that.

Rita hasn't bitten me outside of the cage, but she does nip at things, that's pretty much the first thing she does with anything that comes towards her, taste it first, ask questions later lol

and she's nipped at my toes and fingers, but not aggressively, more like she's checking them out.

She'll come over and climb up me and let me stroke her, etc, then she runs off to play. Pretty much a normal girl, I'd say. Sucks that she's got a tumor.

My first three girls are the least likely to ever warm up to new rats, they are just very territorial.

Tilly and Tessa, my two PEW sweeties, will probably be ok with Rita and Puff.

I see so little of Lady, I just don't know about her.


so, once everyone is feeling better, I'll try again.

I was thinking about doing it this way: I'd have Puff and Rita on the card table in the rat room, and then let Tilly and Tessa up there with them.

???

Unfortunately there's really no neutral territory to use. Is this going to be a big problem?

I was hoping that all of their scents would mingle enough, but if Tilly and Tessa already think of the card table as theirs...........??

I mean, any rat safe spot in my house has already been used by the resident rats.

I need them to be in a room where I can close my 3 cats out, so that really only leaves the rat room.

I keep re reading all the intro instructions and the neutral territory is the main sticking point.


well it's cage cleaning day- also known a musical ratties day LOL

gotta move them in bunches to the playpen in the living room so I can clean out their cages.

 

[jorats]

Usually, I find girls more accepting of new rats so I wouldn't worry so much for the neutral zone, use something that is not used by the current residents every single day.
Rita sounds like a normal rat then... glad that she doesn't bite outside the cage. This means that you can get her out of that habit. As for the nipping, some rats do this as part of their play and attention seeking. Not pleasant but hardly worth doing anything about it, not until you get them introed and get them feeling safe and secure.

 

[Petunia]

Usually, I find girls more accepting of new rats so I wouldn't worry so much for the neutral zone, use something that is not used by the current residents every single day.
Rita sounds like a normal rat then... glad that she doesn't bite outside the cage. This means that you can get her out of that habit. As for the nipping, some rats do this as part of their play and attention seeking. Not pleasant but hardly worth doing anything about it, not until you get them introed and get them feeling safe and secure.

you haven't met my first three girls then :lol:
they don't even like to share me with each other, you should see them shoving each other to be the first one on my shoulder

spoiled bRats
:lol:

 

[Petunia]

well, the fosters are coming along great!! I didn't expect things to improve with them so quickly

They seem to have figured out that not only am I not going to hurt them, but I also protect them from my girls.


But my girls!!!! oy!

they truly hate these new rats. Seriously they look like they want to tear them apart! I get scared of my girls when they look like that!!

any time I have let any of my girls out when any of the foster are out, as soon as they locate the foster, they charge at him or her and attack, and the foster runs to hide or runs to me to be picked up

The reaction is really fierce!!

is this how it usually is when introducing new rats to the resident rats?

The fosters have only been here since the 15th of May, so it hasn't been all that long.

they've all had to share a room, there's really no choice about that when it's hot - but any chance I get, I bring some into the living room to give them a break.


The sad thing is that the fosters all look like they would want to be friends with my girls, but my girls get all puffed up and just plain vicious any time they even see the fosters.

It doesn't seem to matter where they are, they just look like they want to KILL these new rats!

The only rat that hasn't shown any interest either way is my second oldest girl who has a tumor, and although she's not that old, she's slowed down a lot lately and just enjoys stashing food and hanging out.

 

[jorats]

When your girls go run to attack the fosters are the fosters in their cage or out of their cage?
If your girls charge at the fosters than that's not a good thing and I probably wouldn't do intros with the fosters especially if the fosters are in top health.

 

[Petunia]

When your girls go run to attack the fosters are the fosters in their cage or out of their cage?
If your girls charge at the fosters than that's not a good thing and I probably wouldn't do intros with the fosters especially if the fosters are in top health.

this is with everyone out of the cages

yeh, doesn't look good does it?

I think I'll put this off indefinitely until/unless they show some signs that they no longer want to KILL the new kids!!

sheesh these girls are spoiled bRats!!

 

[jorats]

Well at least you can do that, have them separated yet still very happy.