Two fem rats... is one a bully?!

[Mich]

Hi, I'm a new rat owner and I've had my two rats for a few months now, but I'm starting to think that my newer rat, Gale, is bullying my first rat, Abby.

Gale is constantly jumping on Abby and doing forceful grooming, which I understand to be a dominance thing, and she also flips Abby over on her back and will hold her there, and sometimes smell her genitalia(or butt, not too sure what she's sniffing).

Whenever this happens, Abby squeeks, and Abby squeeks all day.

I started doing to Gale what she does to Abby, but so far not much has seemed to change.

Gale never really did take to me as an owner the way Abby did, Gale doesn't trust me, etc. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Anyways, I separated them. I recently got a new cage and haven't used it yet so I put Abby in there on her own for a day or two. She seemed very happy. Then I put Gale in there with her. When Gale was in the top, Abby ran to the bottom, when Gale went to the bottom, Abby ran to the top, squeeking like she was expecting to get bullied. As soon as Gale got close (and didn't do anything), Abby flipped on her back voluntarily and started squeeking.

Even when I take them out to play it seems like all Gale does is dominate or bully Abby until she's tired.

Is Gale a lost cause?! For Abby's sake and for mine. She beats on Abby and she doesn't seem to hate me but she certainly doesn't trust me, and so I can't trust her to romp around the house like I can with Abby. Gale wouldn't come back.

If anybody has some advice I'd love to hear it! Despite her flaws I do love Gale, but I can't have her constantly stressing out Abby, it's just not fair to her.

 

[jorats]

How old are the rats?
To be honest, the way I'm seeing it... your rats might be playing.
I had two brothers and one of them would always flip the other, while the one being flipped would scream and squeak loudly. I was so upset about it, I had scheduled a neuter for one of the boys. One night, I decided to hide and watch the brothers... the victim would run up the ramp and jump on the bully. The bully would flip the victim and cause him to scream. Then once released, the victim would run up the ladder again, only to jump again on the bully. It was a game! They were having fun.

Is Abby losing weight, is she cowering in a corner, is she not eating, is she not nesting, does she stay hidden in the cage and not interact with you? If you said no to all those...then she's not being bullied.
The squeaking doesn't necessarily mean an unpleasant sound. It might be protests but that doesn't mean she's upset about it.
I would keep the two girls together and possibly if you re able too, introduce a new rat to them so the focus is not on each other anymore. Gale needs more to do, more mental and physical stimulation.

 

[Mich]

what do i do to give Gale more to do? i let them out every day and play with them, and even made a cardboard playground for them to play in out of boxes and stuff. =\

 

[coreline]

what works best can depend rat to rat imo. some rats like different toys better than others.

my rats have always loved hammocks and lots of fleece to burrow with. if they rejected every other toy offered, they'd always take to demolishing and rearranging hammocks and fleece. tissues, cardboard boxes, etc. are good basic toys.

jingle balls are hit or miss with my crews, but some just adore them.

Chelsey over at Chelsey's Cozie's makes this awesome fringe rope toy that aren't very expensive. my newest baby girls are balls of energy and just adore theirs. they pull on the fringe and use it as a spring board to get to the door faster lol.

if the cage door is big enough (I mention this because my old Martin's R-695 is a big cage, but the door can't fit a wheel), you could try a silent spinner wheel. it's again hit or miss, not all rats like to run on them. I know my last group of girls thought I had put in a torture device lol. the 12" one is the right size for rats.

my vet also recommends Chubes, which you can buy at The Rat Shop.

for out time I have stuff like the Octoplay and a cat tower and other climbable things/stuff they can hide in or run through.

basically you want stuff that stimulates their brain to keep them busy and work off energy.

I could have put in more stuff, but I all ready sound like a giant advertisement :giggle: the habitat section is amazing for figuring out good toys. I've had rats for 6 years and it still helps me figure out awesome and stimulating toys.

Jorats is right about figuring out the squeaking. sometimes the squeaking is part of play, sometimes it's protest, sometimes it's distress. I've had multiple rats (especially girls in my case) who you'd think were upset, but were just protesting or playing.

 

[jorats]

what do i do to give Gale more to do? i let them out every day and play with them, and even made a cardboard playground for them to play in out of boxes and stuff. =\

Coreline has some great suggestions.
One thing you can do that is immediate, when Gale is hounding down Abby, pull Gale out of the cage so she can hang with you.

 

[Mich]

thank you both, i never thought of a cat scratch tree, but that sounds like a great idea!

i'll try out a few things and let you guys know, thanks for the advice!