tumors : need advice

[ChrisK]

I need advice from our seasoned rat owners.

My girl Skittles is around 26 or 27 months old. She's had two tumor removal surgeries, one was in June 2010 and one was in January 2011. The January one was actually three tumors connected when the vet removed them. Skittles had gotten a Deslorin implant before the second tumor surgery. She recovered well from this mid-January surgery, but just about 4 weeks afterwards, as she was finally off the meds, I noticed a new mammary tumor in her armpit area. So it's been 2.5 months and that tumor is big enough that I wanted to consider having it removed. I brought her in 2.5 weeks ago to discuss surgery, and the vet found another tumor in her groin area at that time. We agreed to watch it for growth for two weeks. Today I went back and found that the tumor under her arm had grown, the one in her groin had not grown too much, but there was now yet another tumor on the other side of her groin area.

I've asked the vet if he thinks he could remove all of them in one surgery, and he can't be sure 'till he gets to it. But the larger question seems to be if we should put her thru the surgery or not. It seems like she's sprouting tumors pretty rapidly and I don't expect at this point that having them removed will change that. It looks like the odds are that no matter what we do, she's going to keep getting more tumors at this rapid pace.

At the moment, she doesn't seem bothered by them. Her overall health seems good. She has slowed down a lot with age, though, and I'm not certain surgery is a good idea for an old girl who's slowed down so much already. On the other hand, I don't want to deny her the chance of longer life without tumors... I'm just not sure removing them today will make much difference at this point.

We're trying to figure out what the best course of action is for her next. So I need to hear from some of our seasoned rat owners.. what are your thoughts on this? what would you do?
Note that she was not spayed, but she did get an implant last year, which is chemically equivalent to a spay.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

It's such a hard decision. Other than the tumors and the slowing down from old age how is she health wise? How was her recovery from the previous surgeries?

 

[crumbilina]

I only have one rat that I can relate to this. I have only had rats for almost 3 years, and have only dealt with tumors in one of them (adding a second one now), so I am inexperienced with this.

Cocoa, my heart rat, got a mammary tumor when she was 2 years old. I operated and had it removed. I did not spay her or give her the implant. 2 months later, she developed what I thought was a tumor on the inside of her back leg. It ended up being an abscess and gave her antibiotics, but she developed a tumor 2 months later by her other back leg. I decided since she was so old and because she was really slowing down to just leave them be.
She lived a long and happy life to her last few days. The tumors barely got in her way. I started to worry that they might effect her normal functions in that area, but they didn't and her masses got fairly large. But that is something you will need to watch out for.

You know your rattie best.

:hugs: Good luck with your decision. Its not an easy one.

 

[victoria]

How big is the lump in her armpit area? I was positive that Sophie had a mammary tumour in her armpit (she had one removed from her other one) but the necropsy showed it was actually a reactive lymph node. Bandit (never had tumours but is implanted) also has reactive lymph nodes on both armpits that even look like lumps when she's on her hind legs so I think it's quite common.

 

[jorats]

Oh man... At this point, I would probably just let her live out her days as comfortably as possible. There are just too many tumors ravishing her body. And I can't see that stopping. It's sad and hard but take this time to really bond with her and enjoy her.

 

[ChrisK]

How big is the lump in her armpit area? I was positive that Sophie had a mammary tumour in her armpit (she had one removed from her other one) but the necropsy showed it was actually a reactive lymph node. Bandit (never had tumors but is implanted) also has reactive lymph nodes on both armpits that even look like lumps when she's on her hind legs so I think it's quite common.

It's kinda hard to describe the size of the armpit lump, especially because of its shape. When she's up on her hind legs, it looks kinda like the fall-out of a big double chin. It's kinda long and looks almost like two lumps, one under the other, when she's in that position anyway.... if it were a reactive lymph node, is there any treatment for that? I recall that her first surgery was in the same place, and that the growth turned out to be fatty tissue surrounding the lymph nodes, and not a mammary tumor. But also the vet removed the lymph node as well as the growth at that time. That was her first surgery, back in June last year. If this is lymph node related, is there anything I can do to help her out?

Note that her other two tumors were tested today and are definitely mammary.

 

[victoria]

Oops. I didn't read carefully before I replied the first time. I agree with Jo... any additional buying you may be buying has to be weighed against the time she spends in recovery and all the risks associated with surgery.

ETA: If the lumps are that big, I don't think they would be reactive lymph nodes. I"m not really sure if anything can be done when it's lymph node related, I know the presence of tumours can aggravate the lymph nodes.

 

[ChrisK]

Oops. I didn't read carefully before I replied the first time. I agree with Jo... any additional buying you may be buying has to be weighed against the time she spends in recovery and all the risks associated with surgery.

ETA: If the lumps are that big, I don't think they would be reactive lymph nodes. I"m not really sure if anything can be done when it's lymph node related, I know the presence of tumours can aggravate the lymph nodes.

yup... the surgery worries me at this point... not just because she has three tumors to remove, but also because she had a brief respiratory episode after her last surgery. It doesn't seem likely that she'd remain tumor free for long if she has the surgery and all tumors are removed, although I suppose it's possible... but that would be surprising in light of the way things have been going.

Anyway, so far, when I weigh it all out, I agree with what you and jorats are saying, that it seems the most compassionate thing to do is to love her, and make her comfortable, keep her on a low fat diet, make sure she gets soy and vitamins, etc. and not put her thru any more surgeries..