They keep beating on...each other

[fenshae]

*sigh* My new rescue boys are trying to give me a heart attack, I swear.

They keep fighting. I don't know what they're fighting OVER, but I THINK the instigator is Stock (he's the biggest of the bunch and seems to NOT have any marks on him - but I'm not sure) and Beryl definitely seems to be getting the brunt of it. I don't know if they're SERIOUSLY fighting or if they're just squabbling a bit as rats do, but Beryl is starting to look a little haggard.

He has a slice on his tail, a scab on his thigh and now a cut on that heel as well. I'll try to get some pictures later, he wasn't too keen on letting me pull him out earlier and insisted on hiding in a corner of the cage I can't reach without dismantling it.

From what I can *see*, the wounds don't appear to be swollen or obviously infected although the one on his foot may be slightly red around the cut. He is favoring that leg slightly.

These rats have been through hell and back already so I don't want to stress him out anymore than I have to, so I don't know what the best thing to do is. Should I get him to the vet ASAP? If there is ANY way I can deal with his cuts/sores with home remedies instead of having to freak him out worse with a vet visit I'd prefer that. Also, should I separate the brothers? My heart tells me no, that it'll only make it harder on them when it's time to reintroduce them and they have to work out their crap on their own, but at the same time I've never had a fight draw blood like this before.

I'll try and get wound pictures up as soon as I can get him out without stressing him too bad.

 

[jorats]

These rats have been through so much, it's not a surprise one of them is acting out. Do yo have a smaller cage like a hospital cage? If so, when you catch the rat in the act, take him out and put him in the "out" cage for 10 minutes. Do this each time you catch him.
Is their current home big enough for all three? Not too big either because that can also cause issues with what they've been through in the past. Also, give them more time to get established and settle.

 

[fenshae]

I can definitely do time-outs. With the aggressor, not the one being beaten up, right?

The cage isn't ideal long-term, but I have housed 3 rats in it successfully for months at a time. It's been my QT cage for awhile; it's two superpets "my first home for rats" cages stacked on top of each other and wired together with added shelves modded in and hammock-levels to prevent falls as they haven't quite worked out how to climb the bars like champs. I need to buy a roomier QT cage down the line (something with a bit more floor space) but it's never caused me too many problems short-term.

Meanwhile I guess keep Beryl's wounds clean and watch out for signs of infection?

 

[jorats]

Yes, with the aggressor. Keep the wounds clean, they should heal right quick.
Are these cages the small ones with purple base?

 

[fenshae]

Yep, that's the one. I think it's 24" x 12.5" x 30" or so with mods. I know, the base should be deeper...but it's never been used for more than a month or so at a time so I've regrettably let it slide on my priorities. Since these guys will likely be longer to intro to my boys I've been playing with figures to see if I can spring for a bigger temp-cage, but at the same time I'd really rather continue saving for the single-CN I've been planning to buy for an extra $40 than a decent-sized small cage would be.

*wishes somebody on craigslist would sell a cage that *didn't* come with a ferret*

 

[jorats]

That should be fine for them, they are used to being super cramped in a hutch right?

 

[fenshae]

Yeah, they've been keeping them at the shelter in a rabbit hutch about the size of a single CN (maybe a touch bigger) with 60+ rats and no levels. Rats pretty much literally stacked on top of each other.

Discovered that the culprit is DEFINITELY Stock. He's the biggest of the three and the only one without cuts and scratches everywhere, and David just separated him and Locke having a tiff. He's in time-out right now (Stock not David lol) and looks very sulky about the whole thing. I think if this keeps up there may be a neuter in his future, him and Einstein (aka "Mr. Humps-Everybody"). But for now, we'll try the short time-outs and see if he lightens up any.

Tried to get pictures of Locke's tail-and-leg wound (it was Locke not Beryl with the leg wound -- once I got him out and got a look at his face I figured it out...damn white rats) but he was way too freaked to sit still. So I just cleaned with some saline and cotton swabs. He's got 2-3 small cuts on his tail, a cut on his heel that looks much more impressive than it actually is once you clean it, and an older scabbed-over wound on his knee that I think may have been there from before I got him. Beryl's just got two cuts on his tail, one fairly big and the other pretty small, and a little scab on his nose that's been there since I brought him home and seems to be healing on its own just fine.

The thing that's concerning me is that spot on Locke's heel. I know it's bugging him because when he walks he holds that foot up so that he's walking on his toes and doesn't set that foot down all the way. But here in a bit I'm going to clean the cage and lay down an extra layer of fabric since there are some wire floors so that should help keep things clean and soft.

EDIT: Spamming my own board, woot woot! Put Stock back in after his time-out and he and Locke promptly got into it again. Walked in with Stock sitting in a hammock and Locke standing on his hind legs with his mouth open in his brother's general direction. Opted to take Locke out this time...he's currently chilling next to my recliner. He's the most timid of the three (and the one most likely to be the one not snuggling with the other two) so I think he could stand the most bonding-time. I'd have him out with me, but he's super freaky about being held; since I brought him home he's peed on me three times and jumped out of my hands twice. Sooo he gets to chill next to me in the carrier for a little while at a time until he gets a little less spastic.

 

[jorats]

Extra socializing might do the trick.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I remember a boy that xxchelle had taken in that had a scab on his heel. He ended up needing to have it soaked in salt and water a few times a day to keep it clean to prevent infection just because of where it is. Although if it has scabbed over and doesn't keep re-openning whenever he moves around then I would think it will be ok.

 

[fenshae]

The cut on his heel seems to be getting worse. Yesterday it was just a cut, today it seems to have opened up, probably due to some loose skin being sheared off (it looks a lot like when you have a blister that you pop and tear off the loose skin). Cleaning it twice a day with saline, although he HATES it.

He's ended up spending most of the day on his own today either with me or in "time out". Stock and Beryl don't fight *at all* when he's not in there, or at least haven't all day. They're sleeping on top of each other happy as clams.

EDIT: they're making a liar out of me. Stock and Beryl were getting into it, so I separated them; Beryl was the one on his hindpaws with his mouth gaping this time, so I swapped him out for Locke, only to have him start fighting immediately with Stock. So I took Stock out and now Locke and Beryl are complacently snoozing. *headscratch*

Beryl's got a cut on his lower lip now. He looks like he's been in a bar-fight. This is getting ridiculous...

 

[jorats]

It's hard to watch and see but it really is normal. If you can, try and get them a bigger cage asap. I would leave all three in there. They need to work out who's who and who will be boss. But with them, I suspect it will take longer because of the situation they were in before.

 

[fenshae]

And now I've got a bite wound too! hehe although ironically not from the three of them....but from Basil. Little buttmunch.

*sigh* it's so hard to watch them, I've never had a fight draw blood before and now they all look like they've gone through the ringer.
Until I can work out a bigger cage (at present after doctor bills and everything I have just over $100 in my bank account -- I keep scouring craigslist in the meanwhile), do you think extra out-time might help them?

I'm guessing their problem is they went from a huge colony where there were probably a handful of very strong alphas, to now there only being three of them and they have absolutely no idea who's "boss" and they're all very insecure about it...and then add to that they're literally *stuck* with each other in a smaller space than they're used to. They only ever seem to fight over hammock-space.

Just woke up so I haven't cleaned Locke's wounds yet. He's getting better about sitting still for me though, I've found that if I hold him on his back he eventually just kind of zones out and gets sort of hypnotized-acting so I can do whatever I want to him.

 

[jorats]

Extra time out will help a lot. They really just need to work it out. Keep your chin up and fingers safe. lol

 

[fenshae]

The fighting seems to be slowing down/losing intensity. They've all been getting lots of extra one-on-one time and that seems to be helping.

Now Beryl's got a bite mark on his foot and that foot seems to be swollen. Gaaaaah.

 

[jorats]

Poor you!! By the end of this, you'll be the best rat nurse. lol

 

[fenshae]

Aaaand now Beryl just tore one of his toenails off. He was fighting with Stock and was halfway climbed up the side and got knocked off, I think that's where it happened. I stopped the bleeding, the nail's still partly attached but he's nibbling at it. *sigh* These guys are going to be the death of me. Or each other.

 

[Argent]

The nail should drop off and regrow as long as it doesn't get infected so don't worry too much about that. The poor guys must be so stressed out trying to reorganise themselves as a group >.<

 

[mamarat]

Poor you, poor Beryl.

 

[jorats]

Are you able to separate and start intros? I wonder if that might actually help. It might not but something's gotta give.

 

[fenshae]

I was thinking about that. I've only got two available cages, so I can't separate all three of them, but I have been tempted to plop 'em in the bathtub and force some bonding. I'm ALSO tempted to plop 'em in the bathtub with all of MY guys and say, "here! have an alpha!" but somehow I don't know think that would help any.

Newest tiff, Beryl vs Locke, Locke ended up with a cut on his scrotum, but it was shallow and didn't bleed much thankfully.